Force Powers

JamesSand wrote:

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)

Because the people in charge are all actually christians and not Jedi or at least they are both? So their magic gets to stand without challenge.

Fyxe wrote: Gisteron, what it shows is that there are real people out there doing real experiments and finding real conclusions about the mind body interactions. He has had good results with this work and is furthering our understanding of something others just say is not real without ever having tested anything! why do you just dismiss this stuff?

I didn't. Read again.

Its valuable research into areas and anytime someone comes up with new ideas like this they always get laughed at until suddenly someone can make money doing it and then all of a sudden its great sceince and a breakthrough in amazing things! This is evidence, you asked for evidence, this may be preliminary but it is evidence and that cant be denied by you! So you were wrong.

What was I wrong about? What am I denying? And, to reiterate my question - seeing as you clearly didn't read it and just presumed I was being dismissive or denying - what claim did you or others make here that is supported by this evidence? Is this evidence of telekinesis? Or telepathy? Maybe astral projection? Talking to spirits/"higher beings"? What exactly was said or shown in the video, or better yet in the studies it references, setting aside their merits for the time being, that actually supports any of the nonsense you believe?

Because the people in charge are all actually christians and not Jedi or at least they are both? So their magic gets to stand without challenge.

It's as good an answer as any, I suppose.

There could be others, but if that's what you've assessed then that's what you've assessed.

So, let say you're spot on - if the people in charge are christians, and by extension are going to silence any other magic stories, what do you hope to gain by challenging them on their turf?

It would seem obvious now that this whole Jediism thing is a front to trick people into joining the christian church, maybe even to stop people from learning magic that the christian church knows exists and is afraid of!

Fyxe wrote:

ZealotX wrote:
sorry, not watching a 40 minute rehash of quantum physics.

Hmm, so I present the evidence asked for and you just refuse to even watch it? Very telling it seems...

Not at all. The thing is Quantum Physics/Mechanics isn't new to me. So if someone passes you a new book about addition, and you already know enough about addition to know that 2+2=4, its really a waste of time to invest 40min if someone is using a new book to tell you 2+2=5. Evidence would be a video of someone actually performing said magical feat. At this point, we're just using ideas from Quantum Physics, as if not knowing the boundaries of it somehow means that anything is now possible. That's not what quantum physics actually ever said and I know enough now to know that.

And there have been plenty of... someone called them quacks and that seems good enough... plenty of people who have tried to advance their names and reputations by treating Quantum Physics as if it proves that our reality is fundamentally magic. I actually liked the faux documentary "what the bleep do we know" which you can find on youtube. However, there's a difference between the actual study of Quantum Physics and the parade of "experts" making claims about it when truthfully, all they do is look up information each other puts out. And then they'll record someone like Michio Kaku answering specific questions that they can use, out of context, to advance their own ideas.

Here's a good example:
https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/michio-kaku-believes-in-god-if-not-that-god

So take all the people buzzing about Quantum Mechanics and put their curiosity on the shelf. Science is not about accepting things at first glance. If something seems like magic it's probably not. The issue with Quantum Physics is size and scale. People think their experiments are controlled, but are they controlled on a QUANTUM scale? Quantum computers have to use extremely cold temperatures in order to prevent interference from affecting the computer's calculations. That tells me that interference has to be accounted for as it determines the behavior of these particles. This article shows how the original idea of probabilities with Quantum Physics may be wrong as other physicists are starting to disagree.

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
(note the date: 2014)

So what we know 20 years is going to be different. We'll have a more complete picture. But it's safer to say that the more we understand it the less magical its going to sound and the people looking for magic will become suddenly disinterested in quantum physics and they'll look for something else to try and prove magic exists. I don't want anyone to feel attacked. I just want us to be intellectually honest in our conversations. And that means if someone wants to believe something that is within the realm and context of belief or imaginary things, then I have no objections. But we can't entertain an intellectually dishonest conversation in which we are having a one-sided argument that encourages science to be used and manipulated into saying something it absolutely isn't saying. At that point we lose our credibility as a group and I would very much not like that.

"I believe I can fly" = okay (irrational)
"I can fly on an airplane" = okay (rational)
"I can fly and so can you" = you should expect someone to disagree (irrational posing as rational)

Ugh, don't even get me started on Bohmian mechanics...

Anyway, though, Zealot, I think you're being slightly unfair. This is not a Deepak clone. Radin actually conducted experiments (a few, anyway), and got (some of) them published in peer-reviewed journals (with very small impact factors), too. He is not woo-ing us about quantum physics in general. I'm not saying that his methodology is air tight, and neither are his independent analyzers, but it's refreshingly not the sort of total "quantum is magic" nonsense you'd usually find in discussions like this.

Gisteron wrote: Ugh, don't even get me started on Bohmian mechanics...

Anyway, though, Zealot, I think you're being slightly unfair. This is not a Deepak clone. Radin actually conducted experiments (a few, anyway), and got (some of) them published in peer-reviewed journals (with very small impact factors), too. He is not woo-ing us about quantum physics in general. I'm not saying that his methodology is air tight, and neither are his independent analyzers, but it's refreshingly not the sort of total "quantum is magic" nonsense you'd usually find in discussions like this.

I feel you. But like I said, I have no need to watch it relative to this thread because it is being used (here) to advance the 'woo'. It's kind of like how I mentioned how Michio Kaku is sometimes used to advance people's beliefs. If Radin is not lending credence to "force powers" then is he in this video at least revealing something I don't already know about quantum physics? If so, I'll watch.

Dakini wrote: Thank you for giving me perspective on this! Moderation IS a superpower that is hard to learn OR appreciate...
My Jedi name is Sanskrit. I honor their glorious culture in this way; I have learned so much on wellbeing from them!
By the way, my Jedi name, translated exactly, means:
Padme (also taken from the Star Wars Prequel Saga) means 'lotus'
Aanandha means 'love'
Dakini means 'sky walker', literally!

I know this is off topic, but I am pleased to cross paths with someone else here who has been influenced by the traditions of India. Without being aware of it at first, I was similarly influenced in my first spiritual stirrings as an adult.

JamesSand wrote:

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)?

Here is your section:
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

No one is laughing at you.



As a Christian Jedi, I can say that THAT is also not something we teach here (Christian Jediism) it's not about true/false. We are having a respectful conversation. It may be possible that laughter is being inferred

In the same way, back in the 90s I used to go by the name Vajhra online.... though I added a h to vajra not to be so bold as to call myself "invincible lightning" :side: Down side turned out to be folk shortened it to 'vaj' :silly:

In Re Christian Jedi, iviewit as different parts of the forum are meant to accommodate different topics... so how something is discussed depends on the context (ie location) it is discussed. For some reason this is in health and physical.

OH! very cool! thanks Rosalyn! I never saw that before!

ZealotX wrote: If Radin is not lending credence to "force powers" then is he in this video at least revealing something I don't already know about quantum physics? If so, I'll watch.

Mhh, probably not. He barely even talks about quantum theory at all. Frankly, if instead of the double slit setup he bought he had said there was some other kind of device he was testing psychic manipulations of, I can't think of a way how that would make the claim different. The quantum is in there mostly for the woo factor, but it's not anywhere near present enough to matter anyhow. So I doubt you'd learn much about quantum physics from it unless you really never heard of any of it before. I frankly learned more about psychological experimental methods and controls from it than about quantum physics...

Would it be too much, Fyxe, to ask you to consider alternative options as opposed to jumping to conclusions which paint a place you are trying to learn from in a bad light?

Rosalyn J wrote: Would it be too much, Fyxe, to ask you to consider alternative options as opposed to jumping to conclusions which paint a place you are trying to learn from in a bad light?

What do you mean? I want to consider alternative options always? Did I jump to a conclusion in someplace?

See here

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Health-physical-fitness-and-wellbeing/123109-force-powers?start=170#346237

ok?? what does it mean?

You saw mention of "Christian Jedi"; nothing beyond the fact that they exist, assumed they were not only here but given special space and privelage over everyone else, secretly running this place, and instead of checking to see if any of that was true, you just ran with it. That's what that means.

You can't learn much of anything operating like that.

I'm starting to see a new pattern, here, and I'd rather be helpful if I can. It seems like you either want or just need more direct instruction, I've noticed others are willing to point you directly to some things, here, and you respond pretty well to that. We don't do dedicated one-on-one instruction, you don't qualify for apprenticeship until you reach the rank of Initiate, and even the apprentices frequently are one of multiple students commanding the attention of their masters. But, in spite of how these conversations are going, most of us ARE open to being helpful, however we can.

I think we all could have been saved a lot of grief if either: someone pointed you to metaphysical studies in the first place, or, you had asked someone directly, where within the temple could I go for discussion of this pet topic of mine? Not, "When do I get powers?" That horse is dead, but, "I want to talk about this, where can I do that?"

I'm actually surprised none of us thought to do that sooner...

Rather than keep telling you about how I don't like your attitude, which has worked so well for myself and others (I'm being sarcastic, there), I would advise you to explore this place, and get a feel for it, and whoever you prefer to work with more directly for assistance, well, just ask, man.

Well no actually I saw a Christian jedi thing in the name thread from one of the founders.. I think? And then james asked me the question to which I replied honestly for clarification only to find he was just teasing me again as well. I want to fit in but I cant seem to find a rhythm here that anyone likes. I never knew about the meta place cuz it's like buried in another forum like in the back of that. So I never looked that far and I dont even know if I had access before I was a member. There seems to be lots of new places after that available and its sorta overwhelming to keep up. I asked rosalyn if we could do ip stuff together but not sure how that would work?

Ok, well, as a member, you should have access to the Discord, where we have a chat dedicated to "IP Study Hall", so there's that, and if you take some time to search through the forums, you might find a similar resource right here in the Temple.

Like I said, the IP is structured and set up to be done on your own initiative, and at your own pace. If you've got someone willing to work with you directly, awesome, it's just not the default practice here.

It sounds like things are starting to make a morepositive turn, here. Don't be in too big a rush to fit in, you'll find your niche, eventually.

Very much good and maybe I come on too strong but I'm excited to be here. For the record i have NEVER said anyone must believe as i do. I understood this was an all encompassing place that accepted all weird beliefs and wanted to share mine. I was shocked at responses. People accusing me of dictating and not having the empty cup thing. So what if my cup is full though? I just asked for opinions not that YOU MUST BELIEVE LIKE ME! but people jumping to this all the time and make me feel hubris and all I wanted was interaction.