Force Powers

All evidence welcome, all attempts at evidence welcome..... heck even all theories welcome, but if folk start to demand blind faith, then that is quite unrealistic outside of things like cults etc. Folk here rightly don't encourage or support cult mindsets, be it cult leader or cult follower.

forceuser wrote: The million people must be right pardon me if I have offended are caused you anger Or suspicion and doubt.
One question I will leave my fellow students
I think most of you will admit we all can believe it when we see it.
Is it possible are you even probable that in reality we may see it when we believe it?

forceuser wrote: You can have both let's start from day One.
1) Watch and learn why you can tie a small rope around the elephant's foot and he won't go anywhere.
2) day two study as much as you can on the placebo effect and watch the thousands of scientific experiments . start to open your mind of what is real.

Very small lesson not everything is as it seems.

Wake up wake up wake up.
I'm only asking you to not be so close minded you can't learn.
And don't be so open minded your brain falls out.

forceuser wrote: This topic was only started by one person who ask a simple Yes or no question.
" can anyone teach me telekinesis"

It seems like most of the people on this forum either in no way can help or dont even understand what's going on. should maybe move to a different Topic.

You know what I noticed about these replies? There is something missing from them... Something ZealotX, Rosalyn J, and myself requested right off the bat, as to some extent did JamesSand. Yet here we are. I, for one, find your lack of evidence disturbing...

By the way, do be careful about publicly introducing lessons on the TOTJO boards without either Knighthood or approval by the Knights. It is in direct violation of the Temple Rules, after all. It is left to the discretion of the moderators whether your first two steps instructions from post #346174 already qualify as unofficial teaching, of course, I'm just saying be careful. It wasn't a smart move on your part to call them a "lesson" either.

Yabuturtle wrote: I sometimes think that a disbeliever will not believe it in because one may not want to even if it is in front of their face. Even if they know deep down they have experienced things that no text book could explain or any science teacher could touch on.

And I sometimes think that one can find out how people would react by trying them instead of just sometimes thinking how they would and then proceed to never check.
What, specifically, is staring us in the face? What have we experienced that is not just unexplained but inexplicable? Usually the question goes something like "Would you believe in God if suddenly a message written in fire appeared on the sky proclaiming that its author is God?" but until anything like it ever happens, what are we talking about?

Because the idea of people having certain powers scares people. Wouldn't it scare you to know there may be people who can use certain abilities, to manipulate others and could use them for good but also ill will, and that there are dimensional beings one cannot even see directly but know deep down they are there? I think it may scare some others because certain things are not what people understand or want to understand and so they may call them crazy because they don't know what else to call them when they hear something not of the status quo and goes beyond their level of comprehension.

That's not evidence, is it? It's just an informal fallacy. Look at it, you're essentially saying that the sceptic/critic is not being honest with themselves and others, all because you can't fathom someone finding the complete lack of evidence anybody presented for the claim to be insufficient grounds on which to accept it. If the Truth^TM is so clear to you and your fellow believers, why do none of you make any effort to demonstrate it? Why do you need to question the emotional state of the doubter, what good does this do the discussion?

Can't pretend everyone who claims such powers is telling the truth because some do lie and make stuff up, but that doesn't mean the power does not exist just because that person cannot wield it.

The reason claims of this sort are broadly rejected is not because of an abundance of false claimants, but because of a complete lack of real ones outside of fiction, and a far-reaching incompatibility of the claims themselves with just about everything we know about how nature works. Once we have a confirmable instance of something like that actually happening outside of Star Wars, Carrie, and Matilda, then we have something to talk about. Until then, let's not speculate about how anyone would react to it, shall we...

I think the larger issue here isn't the "force powers" of the title, but in the method of discourse shown here.

It isn't that they don't/can't exist, because that's a secondary concern to the discussion. The prime offense here is the way that discussion is being held.

There are no cogent arguments, no logical follow-through, and while one side is open to evidence, there not only is none being presented, but that openness doesn't go both ways.

It's really a thread about finding an echo chamber and attacking those that would prevent it; the exact thing that won't work well in this Temple.

ok, EVIDENCE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSBaq3vAeY

I must apologize to everyone for my words I am definitely not a teacher or a master I'm not even a good student I spent 2 years in 2nd grade go figure.
I have been insensitive I too 100% believed and was raised these things did not exist and if any small chance that it did it was 100% from the Devil and you were going to hell.
So can you imagine One of my 1st experiences was when I stopped a soccer ball in mid flight and had it go the opposite direction and break a window over 200' away.
I was so scared I never told anybody that.
And John the boy right next to me is now a doctor who travels the world preaching and if you ask him.he will still tell you " I can't explain it all I can say is that it happened."
And the other things that people have seen with me really don't matter either.
I really do tell myself everyday live in the here and now and just be a good person because these things can't be right.
And very Sad and troubled for sharing my experiences and to that I Apologize to everyone. Because As we all can agree these things are impossible

Rosalyn J wrote: There has been talk of Jedi Mind Tricks but nothing about the art of effective communication.

also, I just want to point out that "trick" is in the name. It's not "Jedi Mind Wipe" or "Force Confusion".

Even in fiction it's understood to be a "trick"; a deception. Let me elaborate.

I believe most things in Star Wars have a real life analog. In this case it is Hypnosis. I believe there is a small amount of hypnosis in religion but I'll save that discussion for another day. What's relevant here is that if you look up hypnosis for information or to understand how it works you will see very quickly that it is based on real world science, not magic.

I wont go into the science here but it is interesting and I think, actually, should be discussed more in the IP along with meditation since the two are related.

Of course if a magician uses hypnosis in his act its going to look like magic. But its not. It's simply something most people just don't understand. Understanding a system and its rules and using it to a certain advantage is the basis of hacking. And there are black hat and white hat hackers just as there are light side and dark side force users (the system itself isn't light or dark, just like the Force ).

So just because a "hack" exists doesn't mean its magic.

Fyxe wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:
We have no need for fictional superpowers when we can learn how to use our mind, body and spirit in order to assist others and ourselves

Why cant we have both?

But... you CAN have fictional superpowers! You can imagine yourself doing anything you want. But you can't have REAL superpowers because it doesn't exist and to say otherwise, just because we want them to, is forcing a superstition onto the Force based on our own desire for that thing to exist. Instead, we should accept everything that actually does exist. Because THAT is the Force. Do you see?

Many religions accept the idea of magic but when those religions were born people were incredibly superstitious and this led to even sacrificing virgins to volcanoes. But guess what? A volcano isn't a person and doesn't care if sacrifice a human body. It works based on pressure. If there's too much it will blow and no amount of prayer and fasting is going to stop it.

Jediism isn't simply Christianity with Jedi robes on, even though Jedi can be Christians too. If a person believes magic powers exist it is because they got that idea from other humans, not from the Force. So why should we argue over whether or not "to believe" in something that "the Force(tm)" never told us? And where does it end? Do I give magic to the Force today and then eyes and ears tomorrow? If I'm scared of dying do I then have to believe that the Force will bring me back as a Force Ghost? The things in Star Wars that are true are true but that's because they're based in reality. The things in Star Wars that are false are false because they're not based in reality but rather human imagination that also helps define religions because everything everyone knows about religion... (spoiler alert)

Fyxe wrote: ok, EVIDENCE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSBaq3vAeY

sorry, not watching a 40 minute rehash of quantum physics. Quantum physics is science, not magic. That's why we have quantum computers already. You can't use quantum physics to break physics. That's impossible. If you break a law in real life, the law doesn't become not a law anymore. You, if caught, go to jail and the law is still the law.

Things in science are laws when they CAN'T BE BROKEN. It's like 1+1=2. If you say, "but according to my new new math" 1+1=3, well sorry your "new new math" is simply wrong. If your "new new math" agrees with the old math then we can accept your new math as math. So in order for a theory in quantum physics to be accepted as law it cannot break physics. If its appears to do so you have understand why that is. The quantum world is the world of the very small. That's why it will behave differently, because there are forces acting on it that may be negligibly acting on larger objects. But it's not magic. It's just a new and exciting branch of science we're still trying to understand.

I must apologize to everyone for my words I am definitely not a teacher or a master I'm not even a good student I spent 2 years in 2nd grade go figure.
I have been insensitive I too 100% believed and was raised these things did not exist and if any small chance that it did it was 100% from the Devil and you were going to hell.

Even if he existed, the devil doesn't give people super powers either. How would that benefit him? What would be the motive? See, I'm not against you. I'm against any idea that doesn't logically make sense. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't makes sense because they've bought into ideas like this. The reality is that people made you believe that magic was from the devil. Did the Devil tell you that? No. Did God? No. The common denominator is people. And if neither God or the Devil told them then they were ALSO told by other people who were told by other people, and so on. This happens so much that many people just assume that its correct without question... without knowledge. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm simply dividing belief from knowledge.

So can you imagine One of my 1st experiences was when I stopped a soccer ball in mid flight and had it go the opposite direction and break a window over 200' away.

The wind is also capable of doing this. I know first hand how powerful wind can be, first hand. The wind took my entire roof off my house. So a small amount of wind can definitely stop a soccer ball. The problem with your retelling of events is that you assume you were controlling it. But it sounds like a fluke that you couldn't and never reproduced. It doesn't sound like you were trying to break a window. If you were controlling it then more than likely you wouldn't have had to go fetch it afterwards, but rather bring it to yourself. So, with all due respect, is it possible that you were the one who kicked or threw the ball but that the wind took it? If the wind was far enough from you a sudden gust may not even have been felt by you, especially if it was not moving in your direction. And how quickly did you dismiss the possibility that it was the wind? How quickly did you assume that somehow you did it?

As we all can agree these things are impossible

As I just explained, it is very possible for a ball to shift direction in mid air and break a window 200 feet away. There were forces acting on it, even if nothing strange happened. You have whatever kinetic energy you transferred to the ball as well as gravity as well as friction. A golfer has to take all these things into account even more so because the ball is so small. But it's also relatively heavy because its relatively solid/dense. A soccer ball as a more dense surface but its full of air. So even though its larger than a golf ball... you get the point. So its not that what you saw is impossible. What's impossible is your explanation/conclusion about what you saw.

You didn't see the air because it's invisible. So it's what you DIDN'T see that I question. I have provided a completely rational explanation for what you saw without being there; without being a witness, simply because I'm using science to give me other possibilities. If you don't entertain other natural possibilities then what are you left with except "magic"? If you cannot repeat what happened inside a controlled environment (inside the house to remove the possibility of wind) then you can't conclude that you were the one in control of the ball. So when I'm asking for evidence, this is why. And its not about not believing you. You would be wrong to be personally offended. It's about whether or not the IDEA itself is possible and you recording it would be proof of that. If you can't or wont do this then that makes me question if you believe it yourself. Call one of the knights here on Skype and do it on video chat. What better way to prove whatever the truth is?

Dakini wrote: Knight Barger,
I never intended to start a full-out argument, and for this I ask your forgiveness. The posts on my thread have gone way too far! I was just asking what I thought was an innocuous, innocent question, but I fear it has drawn some of our members into anger, and anger is of the Dark Side.
Personally, I am training to become all that a Jedi is, and I will give up anything to achieve that goal. On my word of honor, I swear, I never intended to start an argument. For this I again beg you and the entire Temple's forgiveness.

I don't sense anger.

" I am training to become all that a Jedi is, and I will give up anything to achieve that goal. "

Giving up anything is a bit foolish. Besides I don't think that is required. That is a lynchpin for cults and that is not something we identify with

Dakini wrote: I wanted to learn it because I thought telekinesis was part of the basic Jedi training. Luke learned it in Dagobah, right?

Sorry, but we believe in physics here. And since we take Jediism seriously some things sound to us like a joke people may be trying to have at our expense. Star Wars is a fictional story with fictional characters and technology. We do not treat it as if everything in the movies is real. Luke also had a light saber. It worked thanks to a company called Industrial Light & Magic (ILM). It's a movie special effect. So was the telekinesis in the film. More special effects.

Jediism is not about super powers or magic, or space ships, or ewoks, or baby yoda (Even though it should be just based on how adorably cute the baby Yoda in the Mandalorian is). We don't take people's children, and I personally will never be voluntarily celibate. It is about who you are in real life and the journey to your potential.

Relax, Dakini. Though you could have found an answer to your question right in the FAQ, the lengthy and passionate discussion that ensued would not have grown as much as it did without the rest of our participation - nor is there anything wrong with that. Don't beat yourself up, it's fine.


@Fyxe:
So what exactly is this video you posted evidence of? I've watched it, even looked up some of the studies he cited, tried to overlook that he is a recognized quack and associates mostly with the same type of wooster as himself and that he spent like a third or so of his talk whining about how unfairly studies of this kind are treated in the mainstream - as if publishing in a half-decent journal is easy if only one do something else... Be that as it may, at best I'm looking at studies that are compatible if not supportive of a claim that mind-matter interaction may possibly account for an effect that is just barely beyond random noise. I mean, one of the fellow researchers he cited for an analysis of his work actually concluded in his paper that the data does not provide strong evidence of mind-matter interaction as claimed by Radin. And I might point that it was published in PLOS One, a journal whose impact factor is about an order of magnitude greater than the Physics Essays where Radin published... But that's all beside the point. I can be generous and take it at face value, and we'd still have barely moved from whence we started.
Which force powers you believe are real do Radin's findings correspond to, specifically? How is this evidence of any of the specific magic claims that were made here, by yourself or others?

Dakini wrote: What about on page 3 and 4 when everyone started talking about virginity?

Remember what is real let's focus on studying working hard getting a good education and a good job

ZealotX wrote:
sorry, not watching a 40 minute rehash of quantum physics.

Hmm, so I present the evidence asked for and you just refuse to even watch it? Very telling it seems...


Gisteron, what it shows is that there are real people out there doing real experiments and finding real conclusions about the mind body interactions. He has had good results with this work and is furthering our understanding of something others just say is not real without ever having tested anything! why do you just dismiss this stuff? Its valuable research into areas and anytime someone comes up with new ideas like this they always get laughed at until suddenly someone can make money doing it and then all of a sudden its great sceince and a breakthrough in amazing things! This is evidence, you asked for evidence, this may be preliminary but it is evidence and that cant be denied by you! So you were wrong.

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

(Opps hit wrong button-Ros)

In response to Ros/Daiquiri - True, a cultish "give us all your money and stop talking to all your friends and we'll teach you magic" isn't quite the vibe, but there are sacrifices to anything. If you were so inclined you might call this a "cost" or "giving something up" but that is a mean view of it. Giving away something you don't want to gain something important is hardly a bad deal.

Remember what is real let's focus on studying working hard getting a good education and a good job

Sure, do that, it's important, probably. Note I suppose that at least half, if not more, of the members here are grown arse adults who have mroe or less achieved the basic concepts of self sufficiency, hygiene, and grocery shopping.

Your mileage may vary, and I suppose this can be a fascinating discussion on when and how is the best way to learn different things. I personally didn't really start striving to master my self actualisation/transcendence piece until the more mundane was a matter of routine.

I'm sure there are studies out there (I generally wait until Obi finds them for me) on whether you are better starting-as-you-mean-to-go-on and trying to learn and internalise everything that makes up your "best self" from the get go, or starting with the foundational building blocks and adding complexity over time.

the prosaic logic would suggest the latter - you don't try to build a ship under after you learn how to measure and cut wood (I can probably work the old "man who chases two rabbits catches neither" into it somehow too)


Shouldn't put rabbits on boats anyway, they poop in the corners.

Dakini wrote: ): So sorry!
I never, never, NEVER intended for this conversation to go so amok! And it's not a joke at all!! I really respect and look up to the Jedi, and I am truly honored to be studying to become one.
): ): Please forgive me my ignorance!

Trust me. We're good. If I got upset at something like that I could hardly call myself a Jedi

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)?