Force Powers

To actually add to the OP in a semi-meaningful way, I feel like RL Jedi "powers" look less like Yoda and more like Chirrut Îmwe: mastery of self and a balance of control and understanding
of mind, body, and spirit. Not flashy things for the sake of power or convenience, but true power of an internal kind, the sort that tempers us so that we can carve out a new world with our intentions.

Would the various participants in this debate consider Reiki a "Force Power"? Why/why not?

Reiki is one of many divisive topics in this Temple. As energy work in general has skeptics and adherents both here, that might be a partial answer, but it depends on one's definition of The Force.

Personally, I believe Reiki to be the least effective energetic healing paradigm and find it full of snake oil and bullcrap, but that's a complicated conversation.

Sure, I take your point. I suppose the point I was aiming at was - we are criticising some for their beliefs in practices or ideas with little/no scientific evidence. I believe from other threads that some of those same people also believe in things like Reiki, energy work etc which I feel are in a similar category, but are certainly widely discussed or advocated here.

I suppose my question is... where is the line?

For me, all abilities are in some sense "Force powers" as for me all that is, is of the Force. When the OP asked if we can teach them "Force powers" I think teaching humility, compassion, kindness, self reflection would be fair answers. I think some here could teach Reiki or other forms of energy work (for example), which would meet many more people's perception of "Force powers".

I would call reike force healing. This power has many other names so why not this one for jedi?


Steamboat? What other forms of healing do you find more powerful?

forestjedi wrote: Sure, I take your point. I suppose the point I was aiming at was - we are criticising some for their beliefs in practices or ideas with little/no scientific evidence. I believe from other threads that some of those same people also believe in things like Reiki, energy work etc which I feel are in a similar category, but are certainly widely discussed or advocated here.

I suppose my question is... where is the line?

By the looks of it, there isn't one. I wouldn't say that Reiki or other forms of "energy work" enjoy vastly more advocacy than telekinesis or divination does. Sure, all of those things come up because someone brings them up, but the Temple's official stance makes no distinction in this regard and for the most part the same criticisms are raised against them. At most one might argue that if we are talking about some sort of tradition with somewhat established rituals, depending on what they involve there may be some claims we can actually make about the practice's benefit, as we can with some forms of meditation for its relaxing effects, for instance. Of course vague "Force powers" cannot enjoy that privilege until narrowed down to concrete practices. "Telekinesis", to point at something mentioned once or twice in this thread, is also defined in terms of its supposed effects rather than the methods by which they can allegedly be reached. Again we can discuss the merits of the methods any one acolyte employs, but of the "power" itself we can say little more than that so far it made no confirmed appearance in nature.

I think some here could teach Reiki or other forms of energy work (for example), which would meet many more people's perception of "Force powers".

Maybe they could, maybe they could not, and that is for each of them to arrange on their own time and through their own channels, if they choose so. For now, the Temple does not officially promote it nor offer a platform for it, despite propositions towards it in the past. I'm sure there are good reasons for it, too, though I'll abstain from speculating as to which ones specifically were used to justify that decision back then.

Fyxe wrote: Steamboat? What other forms of healing do you find more powerful?

Literally all of them. Reiki is an expensive pack of lies at worst and an absurdly expensive placebo at best. The legends don't line up with history at all, the methods don't follow actual energetic work theory, and on the accidental occasion that it does work, it's because they came to the right conclusion with the wrong process.

It's a pyramid scheme. And I say this as a certified master. Every other form of energy healing is more effective.

steamboat28 wrote:

Fyxe wrote: Steamboat? What other forms of healing do you find more powerful?

Literally all of them. Reiki is an expensive pack of lies at worst and an absurdly expensive placebo at best. The legends don't line up with history at all, the methods don't follow actual energetic work theory, and on the accidental occasion that it does work, it's because they came to the right conclusion with the wrong process.

It's a pyramid scheme. And I say this as a certified master. Every other form of energy healing is more effective.

Well you didnt answer the question. Can you name these other systems? How do I know what your talking about if you have no names? I cant study "literally all of them" as you say

forestjedi wrote: .... For me, all abilities are in some sense "Force powers" as for me all that is, is of the Force. When the OP asked if we can teach them "Force powers" I think teaching humility, compassion, kindness, self reflection would be fair answers. I think some here could teach Reiki or other forms of energy work (for example), which would meet many more people's perception of "Force powers".

This is a valuable teaching, imo. It's hard to deny that we humans are fascinated by the image of magical acts that shatter the limits of what we consider possible, whether we are skeptics or believers. Performers like David Copperfield make a phenomenal living based on that characteristic we share.

But if we affix our attention too heavily on magical phenomena, we may overlook the miracle of the ordinary. Breathing, when you think about it, is a pretty impressive force power; it happens without the aid of our will, and sustains life constantly. Just because everybody can do it and it takes no learning doesn't mean it's not a force power.

Those that ForestJedi listed are pretty important too. They are powers within the reach of everyone, but only developed by some. But the one who breaks his leg falling off of a bicycle would probably be much more appreciative of someone helping him to get medical care than by their levitation of his bike.

I'd not want to discourage anyone from testing the boundaries of the possible ... but at the same time we should not forget the miracle of ordinary things.

My main issue with people asking about such powers is that they want them for very selfish reasons at first--power, validation, impressing others. That's a natural instinct, and nothing to be ashamed of in the strictest sense.

However, the Jedi path (at it's best) is a selfless one. So, goals shift from power to impress to power to help; from validation to charity

I'm attempting to help in encouraging that shift, and I think I might be doing it wrong.

steamboat28 wrote: My main issue with people asking about such powers is that they want them for very selfish reasons at first--power, validation, impressing others. That's a natural instinct, and nothing to be ashamed of in the strictest sense.

However, the Jedi path (at it's best) is a selfless one. So, goals shift from power to impress to power to help; from validation to charity

I'm attempting to help in encouraging that shift, and I think I might be doing it wrong.

I understand that- powers shouldn't be the purpose of heading down The Path- what we gain along The Journey should be a perk of it, not the point of it. Hmmm... you just inspired a new bit of wisdom for my journal, thank you

Seems an overfocus on powers, but not enough a focus on following the Force. What about Force Boons?

yes its fiction, but it is a lesson. Can serving the light wholeheartedly lead to the Force giving back to the servant?

steamboat28 wrote: However, the Jedi path (at it's best) is a selfless one. So, goals shift from power to impress to power to help; from validation to charity

I'm attempting to help in encouraging that shift, and I think I might be doing it wrong.

This comment really hit me and i have been thinking about it a lot. I dont think its likely to directly influence someone’s fascination with Powers but it might be reasonable to increase our emphasis on the importance of service, in general. Maybe more discussions on how we do/could include acts of service into our practice? I admit this isnt anything new lol but i do think the point you raise is important and this is the best ive got atm.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: However, the Jedi path (at it's best) is a selfless one. So, goals shift from power to impress to power to help; from validation to charity

I'm attempting to help in encouraging that shift, and I think I might be doing it wrong.

This comment really hit me and i have been thinking about it a lot. I dont think its likely to directly influence someone’s fascination with Powers but it might be reasonable to increase our emphasis on the importance of service, in general. Maybe more discussions on how we do/could include acts of service into our practice? I admit this isnt anything new lol but i do think the point you raise is important and this is the best ive got atm.

I've always thought it would be epic if there was section of Jedi Websites that allowed individuals to keep a running "Service Journal". Somewhere that individual Jedi could keep a running journal of the things they are doing to help others in their community and how they are growing in order to improve upon the way that they are of service to whatever cause they are working on. A way to encourage other Jedi in their own missions to help the world around them.

One issue...however...that I've run into is a belief that by doing something like this it would be somehow boasting of what people are doing. I, for one, don't think that would be the case. Sharing in each other's experiences has helped a lot of people in the world to reach higher results. We can see the outlier people that achieve greatness, but we often forget that we can do just that too. People who don't have a lot of money can talk about how they overcame that as a problem. Others can be inspired to take up new roles within their job because of what people are achieving. I watched one guy that started on the Sith Path take an interest in the Jedi Path later- and then he found himself wanting to take up a role to increase the safety of the people he worked with on as a Railroad worker, so he became a safety manager. That started him on an entirely new path, and eventually, he worked on becoming a counselor. Now he's working in an elementary school helping improve their mental health program and has even helped with some suicidal ideation cases. He might not have done any of that if it weren't for others sharing what the Jedi Path had inspired them to do.

Just a thought.

I wont say any names but i remember a particular individual some years ago who seemed to be pushing for some way to sort of hold people accountable for service out in the world. I had the impression (which may have been wrong) that it was more about wanting the Temple to better reflect his/her own vision of Jediism than it was about building up the community or even about the actual service. I felt at the time as if the motive was more about seeing/proving who was “more jedi” or “jedi enough”.

Im wary of that sort of thing but i like the idea of building the community in ways that encourage real life positive activity.

@Alethea

He might not have done any of that if it weren't for others sharing what the Jedi Path had inspired them to do.

How did this sharing of Paths take place; was it through service journals, or what?

Not specifically service journals, but in journals members of the order talked often about what they were engaging in. One thing that helped was that those journals were open and you could have on-going conversations with people to develop ideas.

The reason I would suggest the service journal, however, is because there are a lot of things which each of us might encounter that another person may have already gotten through the hurdle of. For example, I know someone here at the Temple was part of the Occupy Wallstreet movement. I, won't say who they are, I know they felt pretty sore after it- as though it was a failure. But I would have loved to have read a journal where he was able to give accounts of what he and his team were doing in the event I ever wanted to get involved with the higher echelons of an activist group. I'd love to know what obstacles I might encounter on simple day-to-day stuff (not that such a journal would need to log every day, I just imagine it might describe an encounter ever-so-often). The kinds of emotions I might go through.

When people recount and give the lessons afterward, it comes off rather dry and misses (IMO) key points that could better prepare someone for the hard work they are about to embark on.

A little off-topic, but a voluntary recording of service would feel different than a service requirement. And a service requirement would feel different if one chose their means of service rather than choosing from a small amount of options.

These are just things to consider, perhaps in another thread?

steamboat28 wrote: A little off-topic, but a voluntary recording of service would feel different than a service requirement. And a service requirement would feel different if one chose their means of service rather than choosing from a small amount of options.

These are just things to consider, perhaps in another thread?

I think this service journal idea is good. Fear is a path to the dark side. That includes being afraid of whatever boasting some people may do. Plus, reading said boasting would be voluntary. So like a TV show you don't like, just don't watch it. As long as it's not a requirement it could encourage other good acts. In society competition lowers prices and raises efficiency. The fact that an employee can get fired ultimately helps the company get better productivity. So if someone is inspired or even compelled to do more good by reading the service journals of others then I think the pros outweigh any cons. Because if even one person is helped as a result I'll gladly read someone's boasting.

If you're helping for TotJO clout doesn't that seem the least bit antithetical to the point of community service?

There's such a thing as TOTJO clout?

Everything we do is selfish. We just get to decide whether that self-interest benefits others as well.