Fact Checking Daniel M. Jones and The Church of Jediism

MadHatter wrote:
Kyrin where did you break the rules? You broke the spirt of the rules with the swearing and DIRECTLY broke the rules by getting insulting with Carlos.

I disagree. I think I followed the spirit of the rule as intended. If you find that in error perhaps the rule needs to be better defined. Especially since it is inconsistently applied - in this case I find Carlos' comment pedantic.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

MadHatter wrote:
Kyrin where did you break the rules? You broke the spirt of the rules with the swearing and DIRECTLY broke the rules by getting insulting with Carlos.

I disagree. I think I followed the spirit of the rule as intended. If you find that in error perhaps the rule needs to be better defined. Especially since it is inconsistently applied - in this case I find Carlos' comment pedantic.

That's your opinion and thats ok too. Carry on with the topic ,insults rarely bother me . May the Force be with you . May it find you where you seek it .

I spotted one word, if there's another hiding in there somewhere than by all means, censor away. FYI to the potty mouth patrol, I've seen Council members use similar if not worse terminology in the past, so just make sure to hold everyone to this, or don't bother at all, cause if there's one thing I don't and will not tolerate, is hypocrites claiming to be Jedi

I personally think it's a shame the way the community has treated the author of this book,
regardless of the rumors. I'm in no way a fan, just very observant...

Zenchi wrote:
I personally think it's a shame the way the community has treated the author of this book,
regardless of the rumors. I'm in no way a fan, just very observant...

Jones seems to want to mischaracterize this place but I wonder if it's as much a response to the derogatory attitude this place seems to want to take with him as much as anything. I know there are differences of opinion on who started what and when but I wonder what would happen if this temple could put those petty differences aside and offered him an olive branch, even offered to collaborate at some level with his group instead of just cut him down.

I believe john has offered the book to anyone interested in reading it. Not sure if you would want to take a gander but he sent it to me and I'm reading it now.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Zenchi wrote:
I personally think it's a shame the way the community has treated the author of this book,
regardless of the rumors. I'm in no way a fan, just very observant...

Jones seems to want to mischaracterize this place but I wonder if it's as much a response to the derogatory attitude this place seems to want to take with him as much as anything. I know there are differences of opinion on who started what and when but I wonder what would happen if this temple could put those petty differences aside and offered him an olive branch, even offered to collaborate at some level with his group instead of just cut him down.

I believe john has offered the book to anyone interested in reading it. Not sure if you would want to take a gander but he sent it to me and I'm reading it now.

I believe Brother John and Daniel patched it up apparently a few years ago but this guy just keeps rubbing salt in the wound and John does the same thing, it's back and forth. They both need to grow the f up. By no means is this guy clear of any blame, but we DON'T make it any better by pointing fingers thinking that we're any better because we're not. We could be if we chose to rise above it. So let's rise above it, Jedi...

One of the main issues here seems to be the claims made about who founded Jediism, and I think we should take a closer look at why people feel this is so important. I personally don't think it matters as much as the people who document what is actually happening now.

Take the Bible, for instance. There is pretty much universal agreement that Jesus Christ founded Christianity. It is named after him, after all. That being said, he didn't write the story of Christianity. His disciples did, along with many others adding to it hundreds of years later. Some of these stories are included and some were left out. The Bible is now taken as Holy Gospel, but that doesn't mean it always represents the actual teachings of Jesus as intended. It is his teachings as filtered through the biased minds of other humans, and only a select few at that. The Romans and Jews tell different stories about Jesus, but those are not deemed important enough to include in a book meant to glorify Jesus as the Son of God. Christians have the right to include only what they wish in their religious books, just as we do as Jedi.

Jones has written a book about Jediism that is filtered through his own biases, but the fact remains that it is a book that many of us have now read. He documented his story as he chose to tell it. If we truly wish to expand on the founding of Jediism including the role of TOTJO as we see it, we should write our own. It will be many years and many pages of writing before a codified text is agreed upon by most Jedi, and it will likely be a combination of the many small pieces we are currently creating.

The best we can do now is live as Jedi as well as possible and document our experiences for others to read later. It will be future Jedi who decide what gets kept and what gets edited out. History is written by the victors, and sometimes that means the truth gets pushed aside in favor of a more appealing narrative.

Technically if you want to find a true Jediism founder you need to go back to the Mos Eisley Cantina chat room and people like Mitth and Streen and Relan. People like them are the true founders because they are the ones that brought the spirituality out of the role play to begin with. But ultimately I don't think it matters who started it or who makes a claim they started it. Jediism is based on individuality right? People are going to say what they say and believe what they believe. Who cares when it comes to anyone else's pursuits.

I don't see people here going around and telling others they are wrong about their particular beliefs in the force. (lol yes, probably me excluded - but for me, debate is how I solidify or evolve my beliefs - my personal process) so why should this place go around and tell people they are wrong about their belief in history? Jones has founded a version of Jediism, that's all he can really say, just like this place and just like the Cantina group. Different denominations can still unify on a basic level and show a unified Jedi front to the world though right? I would think that for Jedi that would be more important than segregation and infighting. Practice what you preach, be peacekeepers.

I certainly agree that we should be looking for the common threads among all Jedi groups in the community and be promoting those things when any one of us is approached by the media. This is difficult when we don't communicate well or do not support others in their efforts to do so. We need to work on this. It will start with a collection of original works that can be tied directly to Jedi and not just a regurgitation of other philosophy or faiths. When we begin to agree on some set literature that will form a foundation for all Jedi groups, we will see more cohesiveness as a religion and way of life. To Jone's credit, he has made a contribution to this. Many of us have also worked on our own books, but we have yet to share them in any formal way. I hope this changes soon.

I think a big issue is when people feel like they are being misrepresented or someone is misrepresenting Jediism as a whole. These feelings are hard to reconcile because, as you said Kyrin, we all have our own ideas about what Jediism is and it is easy for each of us to feel like our version isn't being fairly presented. I feel like a better way of sharing the common beliefs of most Jedi is to highlight the actual work and study we are doing. If Jones is doing something good, let's share that and stop bickering about other stuff. If we are helping charities or active in our communities, let's share those stories. We should highlight the benefits of the practical nature of Opie's path as a Jedi Realist and the religious nature of Rosalyn's path as our Pastor. It is about changing the narrative from "what is Jediism" to "what do Jedi do". When people see the good that can come from practicing this very diverse and very personal path, perhaps they will seek to discover the motivations behind our actions on their own.

Senan wrote: This is difficult when we don't communicate well or do not support others in their efforts to do so. We need to work on this.

I have tried for years to bring together community wide communication and collections of original Jediism/realism work. And given up. Its not going to happen. It's a dream. Not worth even thinking about.

However

There is a difference between having a different idea of what it is and means to being a Jedi. Relan and Streen's "Jedihood" being a good example.

It is a complete other when you blatantly lie about true facts in order to heighten your popularity status and earn money.

One of those I will reluctantly support. Another I will do what i can to bring light the truth.

Trisskar wrote:

Senan wrote: This is difficult when we don't communicate well or do not support others in their efforts to do so. We need to work on this.

I have tried for years to bring together community wide communication and collections of original Jediism/realism work. And given up. Its not going to happen. It's a dream. Not worth even thinking about.

However

There is a difference between having a different idea of what it is and means to being a Jedi. Relan and Streen's "Jedihood" being a good example.

It is a complete other when you blatantly lie about true facts in order to heighten your popularity status and earn money.

One of those I will reluctantly support. Another I will do what i can to bring light the truth.

I agree completely that people lying need to be called out and the facts need to be provided, so long as the facts are objective and not simply another opinion. We can support others with varying opinions of what Jediism should be, but not those who look to exploit it for personal gain by lying.

I think the first steps to collaborating need to involve sharing original work. We have a library here, and it should include Jones' book and the Jedi Compass and works from Jedi at other sites and organizations. In turn, our original work should be shared and studied at other sites and organizations. I realize this is an ambitious goal and maybe even not possible right now. I know this because I have seen your efforts, Trisskar, and how they have often been in vain. I'll tell you this much though, I appreciate the work you put in and I hope you haven't completely given up. Jedi in the future will be seeking information about the beginnings of their faith/practice, and I hope they find your collection helpful and enlightening as I have.