Fact Checking Daniel M. Jones and The Church of Jediism

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Jedi do consider the material behind that source, if not the source itself, that inspired the Jedi worldview as sacred - thus a bible of sorts.

I think I'd need you to define what you mean by 'sacred' before I could say whether or not I agree with you on that, though I do see where you're coming from.

The closest thing that I can think of, that I personally would deem to be a 'sacred text', would be the doctrine. For me, it's the jedi equivalent of the 10 commandments

Kyrin Wyldstar , it's obvious you have not read the Charity Commission's decision (at least not the full decision) about TOTJO or read Become The Force , so I'm linking to the full decision here and I'm happy to send you a legal copy of Jones' book (Kindle Version gift) from Amazon if you'll PM me with the correct email.

Charity Commission UK Full Decision

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/578931/Temple_of_the_Jedi_Order_FINAL_DECISION.pdf

Tellahane, yes I understand what you are saying but still you are never going to be able to deny the fact that the box itself, the very fabric it’s made from, is Star Wars. You can take out or put in whatever you want. It’s not going to change the box. You yourself have argued emphatically that there are certain aspects to Jediism that cannot be altered or it becomes something else. That thing that can’t be altered is the fabric of the box. Can you take your philosophy and call it Christianity? No, because then it becomes something else – a different box with a different fabric that holds the things inside.


Brick, before star wars was a movie it was a screenplay – written text. And before it was a Screenplay it was a series of notes – also written from ideas on a new kind of worldview philosophy that Lucas wanted to bring to life.
As for my definition of sacred, I would define it as something revered, held in high regard, seen as significant in some way, or a source of new meaning or insight for an individual or group.


Br John, no I have not read either, just what you have posted here. But I haven’t really commented on my opinion of either. One thing I did say was I thought one of the reasons for denial was that there was no basis for valid real life source material for the religion. That was clearly discussed in the video you posted. Was there some other reason you thought I should read the texts?

What video are you talking about Kyrin? And I'd like to see your review of the book. You're not the only person I've sent one to. Since I believe you don't particularly have anything for or against Jones, I think you would give a reasonable unbiased opinion.

UK law is much different when it comes to charities. There were two particular main things that caused us to be denied. We accept members who do not hold 'this' as a religion but live it as a philosophy or way of life. For the UK's purposes either an organization is 100% religious or it's not. Since we allow secular members they say we are not 100% religious. 99.9% is not good enough. The other reason is that we primarily benefit our members but the general public not so much. Having a book or not does not have anything to do with it.

Before I forget again, what happened with Alan? I don't see him around anymore but I don't know why.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Tellahane, yes I understand what you are saying but still you are never going to be able to deny the fact that the box itself, the very fabric it’s made from, is Star Wars. You can take out or put in whatever you want. It’s not going to change the box. You yourself have argued emphatically that there are certain aspects to Jediism that cannot be altered or it becomes something else. That thing that can’t be altered is the fabric of the box. Can you take your philosophy and call it Christianity? No, because then it becomes something else – a different box with a different fabric that holds the things inside.

Ever hear the phrase that if you stick 1000 trained monkeys in front of 1000 type writers and have them type for 1000 years, statistically speaking one of them will accidentally write war and peace?

My point isn't so much I'm trying to deny whether the fabric is in itself star wars, the point is I don't care what the fabric is because whats inside the box is more important, I can dump it all out put it in a different box and call it tellahane's religion of fishbits, as long as all the principals are there and all the labels are changed it is a different fabric, and it contains all of the exact same stuff.

Yes I've argued that if you change too much its not jediism anymore, THIS IS TRUE, but it just means it becomes another label altogether. So the idea of the Force becomes something else, perhaps we call it the GRID from tron and we are all computer programs and so on. Yes it's not jediism anymore, but if it uses all the same underlying philosophies that I agree with it doesn't matter what its called does it because I can identify with it just as well as I can identify with Jediism. In fact if you put both boxes side by side and had people walk through and pick one or the other, I would care less about the results, who cares they cover the same things!

Br John, I will send you a PM shortly.


Tellahane, Im not sure why it is that you so strongly want to distance yourself from the name of your chosen philosophy? Some simple facts that you cant deny - the name Jedi and the Force came from the ideas in Star Wars, The concepts behind those ideas are rooted in real philosophical traditions and specific worldviews but combined in a unique way in Star Wars that is different than any other spirituality, The modern day spiritual Jedi evolved out of Star Wars role play groups, and a major component of the philosophy includes discussing Star Wars, Quoting Star Wars and the inclusion of Jedi robes and light sabers as depicted in Star Wars.

Now you personally may not own a light saber or quote movie quotes but that has no bearing on the fact that you claim association to a spiritual group in which a major part of its membership does those things. If you are so vehemently against such things or find them irrelevant why continue to associate with the group and call yourself Jedi? Are you ashamed of those titles or do you just like to practice open deception of what you believe? I found it funny that you said you like to "screw with evangelists" that come to your door. Not a very inclusive practice for a Jedi to be sure.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Br John, I will send you a PM shortly.


Tellahane, Im not sure why it is that you so strongly want to distance yourself from the name of your chosen philosophy? Some simple facts that you cant deny - the name Jedi and the Force came from the ideas in Star Wars, The concepts behind those ideas are rooted in real philosophical traditions and specific worldviews but combined in a unique way in Star Wars that is different than any other spirituality, The modern day spiritual Jedi evolved out of Star Wars role play groups, and a major component of the philosophy includes discussing Star Wars, Quoting Star Wars and the inclusion of Jedi robes and light sabers as depicted in Star Wars.

Now you personally may not own a light saber or quote movie quotes but that has no bearing on the fact that you claim association to a spiritual group in which a major part of its membership does those things. If you are so vehemently against such things or find them irrelevant why continue to associate with the group and call yourself Jedi? Are you ashamed of those titles or do you just like to practice open deception of what you believe? I found it funny that you said you like to "screw with evangelists" that come to your door. Not a very inclusive practice for a Jedi to be sure.

I'm not afraid of the title, and its not that I'm trying to distance myself its that I'm not holding attachment to it. If disney came in tomorrow and said you can't use force this and jedi that, and we changed the names to cheseburger and fries, It wouldn't cause me to flinch because I stick to the underlying philosophy, which is well beyond starwars, jedi and force are just the equivelant to word of the day calendars in the end.

I do actually own a lightsaber, 2 of them but that was pre me coming into this temple. As far as the evangelists, if you choose to invade my personal privacy, come up and into my home and try and tell me what to believe in, yeah I'm gonna have some fun. They usually enjoy it and shake my hand afterwords, it's not like I make them cry or anything I just twist their logic around on them to make them think until they give up trying to convert me.

Let me ask you this Kyrin:

Which of the following is MOST important:

1. That I perform an act of selfless kindness in the name of God.
2. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Jesus.
3. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Muhammed.
4. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Jedi(ism)
5. That I preform an act of selfless kindness.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Brick wrote: My issue with what he says is that he makes sweeping statements like 'We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text'. Do we? I certainly don't. But he tarnishes us all with the same, widely inaccurate, brush.

You dont find it a sacred text? Then why call yourself a Jedi? If you dont consider Star Wars as revelation to a life path, either divinely inspired or not, then why do you study its principles?

True jedi ism has no sacred text nor does it own anything . True Jedi ism encourages humans to turn to them selfs and their own faiths or faith without ... label. The label that removes labels so to speak. Therefore there can not be a true founder of a movement that encourages humans to turn to their own selfs. Jedi ism needs no founder and symcritism is the bread and butter as it encourages the learn at what ... YOU have and what is available to you , now. One of the Joys into opinion.

Tellahane wrote: Let me ask you this Kyrin:

Which of the following is MOST important:

1. That I perform an act of selfless kindness in the name of God.
2. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Jesus.
3. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Muhammed.
4. That I preform an act of selfless kindness in the name of Jedi(ism)
5. That I preform an act of selfless kindness.

A truly selfless act is one of the rarest things you will ever see. Throwing yourself on a grenade for comrads is a selfless act. Your talking about kind acts in service to community. In your case it should definitely be most important to do those in the name of jediism. You obviously care about your chosen philosophical worldview or you would not be upset in the slightest about what you see as Jones misrepresentation of it. Who cares if jediism is misrepresented as long as kindness alone is the goal, right?

You call yourself a Jedi and accepted the title of Knight from a community of like minded individuals. Your obviously proud of that and find value in it or you would not have accepted it. You want the word to spread and Jediism to grow and become respected as a valid path don't you? Then please, stop trying to convince me otherwise.