Fact Checking Daniel M. Jones and The Church of Jediism

Brick wrote: That was bit cringe inducing to watch. I personally wouldn't have posed with the lightsabers at the start, gimmicks like that seldom go down well with a British audience when you're trying to get them to take you seriously. It does irritate me a little that he seems to be the British media's go-to-guy on all things Jedi though, as his version of 'Jediism' doesn't necessarily represent the wider community's version of 'Jediism'.

Also, after people see him, they'll go to his site, see that you have to pay and look at the celebrities he lists as being members and think it looks a bit 'Scientology', which again to a British audience, doe not look good

When we were denied charity status in The UK many in the media there contacted Jones and interviewed him about it and never bothered to ask us about it at all. He told them that we had gone off "half cocked" and ruined things for everyone. He was afraid that now someone could legally harm him just because of his beliefs (as though assault is not still illegal in the UK). Our members on the UK Charity Application Committee worked very hard and submitted a fine application. The main thing that got us denied is that we allow members who follow Jediism as a spiritual or philosophical path and don't claim it as their religion. The Charity Commission said that meant that we were not a 100% a religious organization (since we had secular purposes too) and they were able to deny us on that basis, and on the basis that our Members are the main beneficiaries and not the general public. That's true according to their regulations and the precedents set by previous rulings.

Here are some quotes from his book that you have to see to believe, that is believe anyone would publish so many self compliments, self congratulations, and lies (that are easily fact checked). Don't miss the one about us. How many lies did you count?
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From: Become The Force by Daniel M. Jones

DANIEL M. JONES QUOTES:

Google my name and you are likely to find a “hero” with many faces: Jediist Master. Musician.
Star Wars nerd. YouTuber. Asperger’s sufferer. Big kid.

So, I’m a mass of contradictions. A child at heart who is wise beyond his years. A spiritual seeker and a scientist. A pop punk musician who craves silence. A chemist and an alchemist. A fierce critic of authority who has founded a new religion. A shy but articulate public speaker. A peace-loving rebel. A serious clown. A distracted student who lives to learn.

If you believe in the concept of the indigo child – a child born “an old soul” or wise before their time who is also a peacemaker and an educator – then that might describe me. It is often said that such star children have strikingly blue eyes that have the ability to look into people’s souls, and I certainly have very blue eyes.

When all is said and done, I don’t truly know why I felt called to found a new spiritual movement but that is exactly what I did. I didn’t want that act of rebellion and creativity on the 2001 census to disappear without a trace. Something spiritually empowering had happened then and I wanted to preserve it. In some countries the Jediist movement actually overtook major world religions, such as Buddhism, in popularity, with the most spectacular example being New Zealand, where Jediism was second only in popularity to Christianity. Clearly there was something important going on and this didn’t just deserve to be understood, it deserved to be counted. It deserved a voice. Nobody else was putting themselves forward so I figured it might as well be me.

Something higher and greater than myself was telling me without words, just through intense
thoughts and feelings, that I had to push forward and found Jediism. I had to do something and I had to
do it now. I had to do something amazing to help and inspire people. Something fantastic that nobody
had ever done before. All doubts were gone and they were just replaced with a quiet certainty that I
had to do it and I still have that feeling today. It has never gone away. It is what defines me. It is the
power of the Force telling me I’m on the right path but I have to do more.

I had felt this sense of spiritual calling before in my late teens but it had been gentler and very much a calling to start something, even though I wasn’t quite sure what that something should be. Now it was telling me it was time to get going, to stop thinking and start doing. It was my road to Damascus moment. Jediism was about to be born.

In short, founding Jediism was my act of love.

After my road to Damascus moment on the beach when I just knew that the universe was calling out tome to found Jediism, there were many harsh critics who told me I needed to put away my lightsaber and grow up.

I decided to use my experience of the music and entertainment industry and my contacts with journalists to put together a press release. I knew how to play the media game. I didn’t really care how I got exposure but I wanted everybody to know about Jediism, and so I thought up an attention-grabbing headline: “Two brothers from Wales found the Church of Jediism” with the tagline “We have lightsabers and everything”. The tagline was to make them think, “Wow, we have to read this entertaining and fun feature”.

We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text but we are all unique in our approach to the Force. For example, the Temple of the Jedi Order is a Christian Jediist group based on the teachings of Joseph Smith, and other groups have their own specific requirements to join. There are also more open-minded and inclusive groups such as the Jedi Realists, but the Church of Jediism remains the only significant Jedi organization in the world that embraces all religions and belief systems, including atheism. It is also blessed to receive interest from the media and to have a healthy membership. This doesn’t mean that bigger is better – simply that the Church of Jediism is a significant spiritual movement.

If I had to define the Church of Jediism I would say it is more a movement offering applied living techniques through philosophical teachings and at its absolute core is the desire to help others. So, for example, one of the church’s current Master Jediist faculty trainers, Loyd Auerbach, is Jewish but he can happily support the movement because it does not expect him to renounce his beliefs. In much the same way, Jediist council member Patrick Day Childs is an atheist but he is drawn to the movement because there is no mention of a god but rather that we are all interconnected by the eternal power of love or a Force higher than ourselves and that we live on through our good deeds or our children. In essence, the Church of Jediism is a modern approach to living with spirituality, purpose, love, compassion and peace and not a religion. We use the word “church” not in the religious sense but in the sense that it is a gathering of likeminded people.

From: Become the Force: 9 Lessons on How to Live as a Jediist Master by Daniel M. Jones (Author),‎ Theresa Cheung (Editor)

http://BecomeTheFarce.com

Brick wrote: his version of 'Jediism' doesn't necessarily represent the wider community's version of 'Jediism'.

What exactly is the wider communities version? How is it different than his? How do you validate one version over another? It seems silly to make this statement when the community in general cant even define itself, even within a site like this.

Jones wrote: I didn’t really care how I got exposure but I wanted everybody to know about Jediism,

My point proven right here. The Jedi can complain about all his antics all they want but the facts remain. He plays the game better than the rest. He has written his own original material, something this place has yet to do, and he knows how to get his message out there, all publicity is good. He can also easily capitalize on the fact that this place still uses christian sounding names in clergy. Its easy to perpetuate a lie when the ones hes speaking about walk right into it and hang themselves.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Brick wrote: his version of 'Jediism' doesn't necessarily represent the wider community's version of 'Jediism'.

What exactly is the wider communities version? How is it different than his? How do you validate one version over another? It seems silly to make this statement when the community in general cant even define itself, even within a site like this.

Jones wrote: I didn’t really care how I got exposure but I wanted everybody to know about Jediism,

My point proven right here. The Jedi can complain about all his antics all they want but the facts remain. He plays the game better than the rest. He has written his own original material, something this place has yet to do, and he knows how to get his message out there, all publicity is good. He can also easily capitalize on the fact that this place still uses christian sounding names in clergy. Its easy to perpetuate a lie when the ones hes speaking about walk right into it and hang themselves.

Those Clergy ranks are gone now. Also many people have created their own original works here.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Brick wrote: his version of 'Jediism' doesn't necessarily represent the wider community's version of 'Jediism'.

What exactly is the wider communities version? How is it different than his? How do you validate one version over another? It seems silly to make this statement when the community in general cant even define itself, even within a site like this.

A valid point Kyrin. But that is why I tried to choose my words very carefully by saying his views do not 'necessarily' represent the views of the community.

My issue with what he says is that he makes sweeping statements like 'We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text'. Do we? I certainly don't. But he tarnishes us all with the same, widely inaccurate, brush.

I've been having some discussions with an investigative journalist. I'll say what I can. The only thing I regret is someone goes to his site, discovers it's pay to play and Scientology Lite, then gets so turned off by it they dismiss the Jedi movement without ever knowing what else is out there.

He gets plenty of people to go there but not even one tenth of one percent go back.

I wish I could share more but it will all be available soon enough. I can show you some publicly available information that does not violate my confidentiality agreement.

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/churchofjediism.org.uk#trafficstats - CoJ traffic rank

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/templeofthejediorder.org#trafficstats - TOTJO traffic rank (lower is better - Google or Facebook are #1)

And here are two articles where the media is finally catching on to him and not just taking whatever he says as Gospel.

http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/lifestyle/article/jediism-caught-between-the-dark-side-and-the-light.html

https://www.inverse.com/article/31175-how-to-become-a-jedi-church-of-jedi-religion

Brick wrote: My issue with what he says is that he makes sweeping statements like 'We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text'. Do we? I certainly don't. But he tarnishes us all with the same, widely inaccurate, brush.

You dont find it a sacred text? Then why call yourself a Jedi? If you dont consider Star Wars as revelation to a life path, either divinely inspired or not, then why do you study its principles?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Brick wrote: My issue with what he says is that he makes sweeping statements like 'We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text'. Do we? I certainly don't. But he tarnishes us all with the same, widely inaccurate, brush.

You dont find it a sacred text? Then why call yourself a Jedi? If you dont consider Star Wars as revelation to a life path, either divinely inspired or not, then why do you study its principles?

I believe the statement "We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text" more refers to the idea that we refer to star wars as our bible, which is not true, at least here anyway, its the idea's of the story we work off of, but we don't hang or at least I don't hang on the movie/book quotes or go nuts on that where someone quotes qui gon jin and because of that we should follow it because they did so in the movie. Maybe others do but I certainly avoid that like the plague. There is a difference between focusing on the idea of Jedi compassion, because of the idea itself removed of all labels, and quoting or following a specific part from the movie and following it because its there.

Also seriously no one has written any stuff, have you been to the library? I wrote my own little mini book and I'm seriously considering writing a bigger one and possibly turning it into a book.

Tellahane wrote: I believe the statement "We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text" more refers to the idea that we refer to star wars as our bible, which is not true, at least here anyway, its the idea's of the story we work off of, but we don't hang or at least I don't hang on the movie/book quotes or go nuts on that where someone quotes qui gon jin and because of that we should follow it because they did so in the movie. Maybe others do but I certainly avoid that like the plague. There is a difference between focusing on the idea of Jedi compassion, because of the idea itself removed of all labels, and quoting or following a specific part from the movie and following it because its there.

Also seriously no one has written any stuff, have you been to the library? I wrote my own little mini book and I'm seriously considering writing a bigger one and possibly turning it into a book.

Still the fact remains that whether you consider Jediism a life philosophy or a religion, its source is still Star Wars and Jedi do consider the material behind that source, if not the source itself, that inspired the Jedi worldview as sacred - thus a bible of sorts.

As for the written stuff, I don't think I explained myself well. I didn't mean to say no one here has written anything, I meant to say that this temple has not published an all inclusive original work that represents the whole of this place and its philosophy as one cohesive body of work. The best that can be said is that the temple has put together a hodge podge of works from other authors and sources in the IP as representing what this place is.

I think that was actually one of the reasons that religious status was denied in England. Daniel now has that work and his claim that he will get Jediism certified as a religion in the next 5 years will come to fruition because of things like his book. It will only serve to further solidify his standing as the founder of Jediism. People can sit back and complain about such things all they want but it wont change that fact. Only action will.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Still the fact remains that whether you consider Jediism a life philosophy or a religion, its source is still Star Wars and Jedi do consider the material behind that source, if not the source itself, that inspired the Jedi worldview as sacred - thus a bible of sorts.

Perhaps some see it that way, I don't. Jediism is to me a container. Inside this container are philosophies...ideas...lifestyle choices, whatever have of how we want to either believe in the supernatural, follow a philosophy to live by or some of both. Christianity is a container, has a lot of similar stuff but also maybe some different choices. Take the labels off they are still boxes of good stuff.

Now you can argue where that stuff came from IE Star Wars. But what is starwars but its own box of ideas and philosophies and stories and so on that also came from somewhere else, from other boxes.

I don't necessarily call it a "source" because to me source implies the original, and star wars while its collection is unique and original all the idea's in it not so much. I'd like to think that long before humans developed language and speech a mother still felt compassion for her son or daughter, that some of these idea's are older then we can understand or comprehend. As pattern recognizers were designed to find things and put them in boxes with a label on it so we can better comprehend a collection of ideas/philosophy/stories/belief etc. Jediism is just another one of those, one that for a certain group of people agree with most of what's in the box.

Some don't agree at all, and others kind of like yourself kyrin look in and go mmmm take these few things out, and I'm putting these few things in, and perfect just the way I like it. Doesn't make it any greater or lesser then any other box because its your box. But the underlying lessons within that box are still the same underlying lessons in many other places they just have a different label to them.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Brick wrote: My issue with what he says is that he makes sweeping statements like 'We all regard Star Wars as a sacred text'. Do we? I certainly don't. But he tarnishes us all with the same, widely inaccurate, brush.

You dont find it a sacred text? Then why call yourself a Jedi? If you dont consider Star Wars as revelation to a life path, either divinely inspired or not, then why do you study its principles?

Well for starters, Star Wars isn't a text. I appreciate a lot text has been written around it, but to the man on the street 'star wars' means a series of kids films. Whilst the sci-fi fan in me holds star wars very dear to my heart. The spiritual side of me does not.

Why do I call myself a Jedi? I see all faith systems as a bunch of myths trying to explain what we're doing here and how we should behave as decent human beings, each myth with it's own name for the 'transcendent' (whatever that is). Of all the myths that I have heard, jediism is the one that works best for me. Specifically jediism as it exists in this temple (much like a Christian may prefer Christianity as it exists in a protestant church as opposed to a Catholic one).

I call myself a Jedi because this faith system is called jediism and this temple is the temple of the jedi order. But I have no attachment to that name. Were TotJO to stay exactly as it is, but call itself the temple of the New Fandango order, then I would identify as a 'New Fandango'.

I study the principles of the doctrine at this temple, because they fit my beliefs.

None the reasons why I am here or why I call myself a Jedi, support the notion that I should revere a series of very successful kids films as a sacred text