Jedi Healers

Professions such as mine dispense medical advice that comes from a different system of medicine so why should we fall in line with a different model just to be accepted? There is a lot of work being done on bridging the gap and many areas of the NHS, for example, are accepting energy medicine as being a valid and supportive form of therapy for their patients.

There is also a lot of research being done (as I mentioned, James Oschmann has produced some interesting results) but needing to provide such analysis is a relatively new thing given the fact that energy medicine for hundreds of years has always existed on the basis of "it works, therefore that's all the results we need". Why do we need to prove how it works according to science that has a different perspective?

Qualitative research is confirming the usefulness of such therapies - a small example of some can be found here: http://www.shiatsusociety.org/content/current-and-published-research

As scientific equipment improves in quality, more accurate confirmation of the effectiveness of energy medicine is being produced. Concepts that are reasonably new to science, such as quantum mechanics, are also playing a part in this. Earlier in this thread, discussion took place over how intention and attention can produce results (such as in a placebo trial). Quantum physics tells us that the very act of observing something changes that observed reality. This is exactly the same as how the energetic universe can be affected by looking, thinking and believing it to be different.

Wescli Wardest wrote: PS: I would love to pick your brain Mark Anjuu on what you have learned in traditional Chinese medicine, meridian work and acupressure. And perhaps get a Jedi’s perspective on those things.

Gladly! Always happy to wax lyrical about such things

There is also a lot of research being done (as I mentioned, James Oschmann has produced some interesting results) but needing to provide such analysis is a relatively new thing given the fact that energy medicine for hundreds of years has always existed on the basis of "it works, therefore that's all the results we need". Why do we need to prove how it works according to science that has a different perspective?

No. prove me that it works (beyond the placebo effect, which always "works"). This means you take 100 people, give them real shiatsu/reiki/else treatment. Take another 100 people, give them fake shiatsu treatment. Take another 100 people, give them no treatment. Because belief has previously been said to play a part, you should probably have a group of 100 believers getting real shiatsu treatment, another getting fake treatment, have non-believers get real and fake, then, additional control groups as follows: believers told they are getting fake treatment despite getting the real one, non-believers told they are getting the fake treatment despite being given the real one, etc...

This is not medical science, physics or anything like that. don't prove how it works, just prove that it does, by using statistical tools, the right research and control groups so as to not jump to conclusions. All research I have ever seen has always failed at this. ALWAYS. Hence my total disbelief in vitalism.

And, this is what I expect from everyone. Scientists have been known to jump to conclusions or even have faith in their results too. The difference is they don't get away with it due to harsh peer review.

many areas of the NHS, for example, are accepting energy medicine as being a valid and supportive form of therapy for their patients.

Just because the NHS does it doesnt mean it works. NHS GPs seem to only know about paracetamol, and the NHS supports homeopathy. No wonder all the good ones go private. On their own website: http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/July07/Pages/nhs-homeopathy.aspx

Consider these three points.

1. Bariss offee is name. Simply a collection of letters. To describe a particular object, and thus bring it into exiistance.
2. I am at war with the phisical energy.
3. I belive in the force.

Infact everyone who practices a "spiritual" path is doing just that DESTROYING THE PHISICAL ENERGY.

So if someone mentions the "Republic"... I can think that from thier own side (yes I said from they're own side!) they are memtioning something from what we refer to as the "star wars"

This simply proves that this gosip is secretly beneficial.

All things are a secret teaching.

All things depend on our mind.

Sorry did I use an antithesis again...

Right on! Master Anjuu you're on my side

ren wrote: This is not medical science, physics or anything like that. don't prove how it works, just prove that it does, by using statistical tools, the right research and control groups so as to not jump to conclusions. All research I have ever seen has always failed at this. ALWAYS. Hence my total disbelief in vitalism.

Unless the very intention of the influence alters the nature of the result.

And what about tobbacco. I smoke tobeacco. Have you any idea what the tobbacco stand at my local supermarket is worth in revenue? It's got to be somewhere in the millions. AND THE PHARMACIUTICAL COMPANIES ARE RAKING IT IN SIMPLY BECUASE I AM WORRIED ABOUT VIOLENCE IN THE MEDIA.

This is not just a dig at an industry minded emplyoment.

Anikin Skywalker was techinically minded. Infact, the Star wars films and books's reference to the balence bettween light and dark; brought about by the choosen one, do not mean some kind of "Good" and "Bad" energies.

Infact it means the balence bettween technology and spirit. Darth vader was "More machine now than man" (according to Obi Wan Kenobi)

Ren... you are a cisco engineer, and so am I. please, will you not find at least some truce with the abilities of Reiki practitioners and the like?

Jack... why does it really matter if he likes it or not?

Do you need his approval?

There's a line, I think, between harsh peer review and being an independent in your thoughts. In my opinion, if it works, why change it? Keep at it, my friend.

Unless the very intention of the influence alters the nature of the result.

Please explain.

Ren... you are a cisco engineer, and so am I. please, will you not find at least some truce with the abilities of Reiki practitioners and the like?

I was personally "saved" by regular medical practice. Despite this, I expect rigour from all involved, and do not blindly accept whatever gets thrown at me. When I am told I should replace rigour with faith I immediately suspect ill-will. That's for everything. Medical practice, signing a contract or repairing an aircraft, or as you suggest, setting up a network. Don't worry about the checklist, the mechanic is a man of god. Yeah, right. Funny too how people usually do things which are likely to reinforce their faith. I wonder if reiki can grow back your limbs the way salamanders do...

ren wrote:

Unless the very intention of the influence alters the nature of the result.

Please explain.

There is not much to explain unfortunately. Alternative therapies don't have proof of the mechanisms, they just have approach's to try and recreate the results. The Observer Effect represents basically what I was referring too. Its up to you what you choose to believe of course, but my comment was meant to point out that perhaps it is possible for something to exist without passing that proof you provided.... in case you hadn't considered it. Further my comment makes assumptions which are unsupported such as that intention could even be involved, so I am not trying to convince you your wrong, rather that perhaps you could be wrong. There is no doubt practices that follow physical laws will continue to follow physical laws, but I think its rash to strike out those things which we do not understand given science itself accepts much is beyond its own body of knowledge.

Adder wrote:

ren wrote:

Unless the very intention of the influence alters the nature of the result.

Please explain.

There is not much to explain unfortunately. Alternative therapies don't have proof of the mechanisms, they just have approach's to try and recreate the results. The Observer Effect represents basically what I was referring too. Its up to you what you choose to believe of course, but my comment was meant to point out that perhaps it is possible for something to exist without passing that proof you provided.... in case you hadn't considered it. Further my comment makes assumptions which are unsupported such as that intention could even be involved, so I am not trying to convince you your wrong, rather that perhaps you could be wrong. There is no doubt practices that follow physical laws will continue to follow physical laws, but I think its rash to strike out those things which we do not understand given science itself accepts much is beyond its own body of knowledge.

Maybe you missed that. I do not ask that the phenomenon be observed. I don't want to know how chi kills a virus. I want proof that it can by looking at the end result.

"it is possible for something to exist without passing that proof you provided". All I'm asking for is for ill people to go through an experiment and see if they are still ill afterward. If people are still ill afterward, then the object of the experiment failed. It draws no conclusions over whether things exist outside our knowledge.

Regarding the observer effect, if simply testing someone after reiki or shiatsu makes them ill again, then I suggest people simply stop going to the doctor's (or other health practitioner) to begin with. No diagnostic = no illness. Hurray!