Jedi Healers

Jestor, I understand your position and your reservations about what I have said. My usage of the term 'ignorance' is based on the level of objective thought and assumption making that people put into forming ideas

I have no issue with who does what with their lives (providing they aren't also infringing on the lives of others of course (another discussion)) they are free to do whatever they please! To become a reiki master, to have a reiki treatment to believe or don't believe in whatever God or system of morals they want

I am discussing the idea itself and the reasons behind it, not having a go at the person/people that believe in it

I do not hate and am not intolerant of people I disagree with. I can happily get along with anyone

If this is a discussion of ideas then these are my thoughts. Doesn't mean I will think myself 'higher' than anyone who disagrees with myself

In reference to what you said about me lumping it with unicorns well that is, in all fairness, taking what I said completely out of the context of the discussion. I was making the point that just because something hasn't been disproved by science isn't grounds to believe in it or you have to believe that everything and anything is true

And in answer to your last question no it hasn't and I assure you that, just as Christians have differing views on God, so I likely have a completely different perspective than you

Akkarin wrote: But they heal people on the basis of ignorance (no offence). When I say ignorance I do not mean that they are not sincere, they truly believe they are doing good and they do indeed do good

But we have methods and ways of proving whether or not things are what they are to ensure that human ignorance and blind assumption/faith is excluded

Many people believe in things that have no basis in real world fact. Reiki healers are among these people

OH SHOOT! It's another GREAT opportunity to squeeze in my structure of the brain/phsyiolgical aspect I love it when these happen!


Actually, Akkarin is CORRECT, but he is also WRONG. All of this, energy work vs hard facted sciences is a brand new field, so scientists and scholars all over the world are having these very same discussions. But what we DO know is that blind faith accounts for a lot to the human psyche. It's all about what your sub-concious (sry sp massacre's may occur) and what YOU believe to be true.

Now there are different types of brain users. One could argue that we are no longer Homosapiens, but rather evolution has occured in BRAIN FUNCTIONS/ACTIVITY causing the human race to branch into different sectors in the Homo genus. A class of people have evolved into a more logic, hard fact finding sector. These are your provers. Another class of people evolved into a emotional/energy aware state. Often, these people are percieved as having "psychic powers" but all they are doing is accessing and using a part of their brain previously unused, and fairly uncharted.

Energy healers are not mystik voodoo shamans from the movies. In the most measureable and scientific sense, they are simply a class of humans that have a higher understanding of their electro-magnetic emissions (energy) and can manipulate it to help or hurt others. And the way that Reiki healers work is with a visual or touch of their hands.

But we are talking about a very small percentage of the population now. People with this understanding and manipulation mastery often times find it difficult to use their work on someone just like them.

(sorry, pulling out the Jesus example becuase i'm Christian, this is in no offense to anyone).

Jesus. If you look at the mechanics of energy healing and understanding the phenomena of blind faith...all Jesus REALLY did was a form of Reiki. But anyone who does energy healing work knows that you don't need to spit in dirt to make mud and rub it someones eyes to help their vision. just the same, you don't need to put your hands on someone to manipulate their electromagnetic field. The reasoning behind this?

Blind Faith healing. People more often than not do not have a complete blind faith. If Jesus had walked up to the blind man and said your vision is restored, he would not have had the faith that his vision was restored because i mean, how can you just say someone's vision is restored and it ACTUALLY happen? It was the physical aspect, the mud on the eyes, that gave this man the "physical proof" he needed to believe that Jesus was doing something, and BAM! according the Bible, his vision was restored. Same with Reiki healers, people who turn to energy healing are not just going to believe that me sitting there concentrating on them is healing them.

It's all about their subconcious. If you believe that something will work, low and behold...it usually works

Again, if you and me are looking at a horse with a calcium deposit on it's head that happens to look like a horn, and you say: That poor horse has a medical condition causing a horn like structure to appear. And I say: That's a unicorn.

Our minds have already written our internal laws of belife. I REALLY believe that i'm looking at a unicorn, and you REALLY belive that poor horse has a medical problem. Can science prove one way or the other? Absolutely not. Because what is a horn? It's a large calcium deposit bone like structure. And are there cases of mammals growing these "bones" in odd places that is considered a medical condition? Absolutely.

The science of the brain is far to brand new to know anything in concrete, so please don't regard me as an expert. But we can tell that science and blind faith can not function properly without the other. The same reason why we can prove or deny the existance of the Force.

It's all what YOU believe.

Akkarin wrote: Jestor, I understand your position and your reservations about what I have said. My usage of the term 'ignorance' is based on the level of objective thought and assumption making that people put into forming ideas

I have no issue with who does what with their lives (providing they aren't also infringing on the lives of others of course (another discussion)) they are free to do whatever they please! To become a reiki master, to have a reiki treatment to believe or don't believe in whatever God or system of morals they want

I am discussing the idea itself and the reasons behind it, not having a go at the person/people that believe in it

I know you are not insulting the people...

I was referring to your, uh, wording about the belief... That's all...

I do not hate and am not intolerant of people I disagree with. I can happily get along with anyone

I know you dont hate... and you do get along with everyone...

If this is a discussion of ideas then these are my thoughts. Doesn't mean I will think myself 'higher' than anyone who disagrees with myself

In reference to what you said about me lumping it with unicorns well that is, in all fairness, taking what I said completely out of the context of the discussion. I was making the point that just because something hasn't been disproved by science isn't grounds to believe in it or you have to believe that everything and anything is true

Kinda, you have to believe the possibility of things being true, not that they are...

As WB pointed out about unicorns, in the "days of olde", a unicorn could still exist... If we take a "deformed horse/donkey/goat,deer that has a single horn instead of two complete and seperate, and mated it with another of the same type, generations later, this might form a unicorn, or, the reverse might be true...

Maybe they did exist, but were deemed inferior by members of their own species, therefore were allowed to die off... As one horn is a less effective defence weapon versus two...

Im not really a unicorn fan, just talking.. lol...:blush:

And in answer to your last question no it hasn't and I assure you that, just as Christians have differing views on God, so I likely have a completely different perspective than you

Agreed...

Back on topic... :woohoo:

Wow! I go away for 2 days (incidentally to finish my studies in Shiatsu, another form of body work with a holistic approach!) and the thread has gone mad!

So to answer a few things and to put my own opinion on some more....

There are many different way of teaching Reiki and many different styles. Some have 3 levels, some 4, some more. There is no one definitive right or wrong way. What is important is to find the one(s) that work for you and to be true to your own intentions. Everything else is just useless posturing.

As for the effects of something like Reiki, if it works, it works. Does it matter if we don't quite understand how? Besides, that's only if you ascribe to purely scientific methods to evaluate such things. Chinese medicine has been successfully treating people for thousands of years but a lot of it can't be "proved" according to current scientific abilities.

And here's the interesting thing. At present, science doesn't have the capabilities of measuring such things as energy fields to the degree that is necessary to conduct rigorous examinations. A hundred or so years ago, medical and scientific instruments were incapable of understanding or recognising bacteria or atoms, yet the still exist. If you had told someone 400 years ago that diseases were caused by tiny things that were almost invisible to the naked eye but existing on and in you in their millions, you would have been laughed at or locked in the madhouse!

Current cutting-edge experiments are beginning to "prove" things that have long been known to exist in cultures such as the Orient. I encourage you to read the work of James Oschman, or the research on electromagnetic impulses in connective tissue (reflecting the concept of existing energy lines of "meridians"). Current equipment can now detect the electromagnetic field of a human up to 5 metres, something that was previously considered ridiculous. And that limit is only because of the range of equipment.

Complementary medicine is exactly that: complementary. It is not intended to replace other forms of medicine when there is a real need for it. For example, reiki won't stitch your leg back on if it gets ripped off. But it can help to improve the healing process and to support a regular and healthy lifestyle. One thing that we are constantly taught in Shiatsu is the awareness of the need for medical attention where appropriate. If someone has blood in their stools, then it may be a signifier of a variety of Chinese medicine syndromes but it's also a good sign that they need to see their doctor! Complementary and conventional medicine don't have to be at odds with each other.


So to summarise:

Just because something can't be proved doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If a form of healing, medical or otherwise, work, then it works.

The mind and our intention plays a significant part in our healing process. Instead of thinking "it's kind of sad people have to believe in something to make their body feel better", I think it's amazing that we can have such a positive effect on our on wellbeing, simply through the power of thought.

Everyone has their own ways. If we feel the need to disparage others in order to prove our own viewpoint or to make ourselves feel better, what does that say about the strength of our own conviction or our empathic compassion?

Perris, you're a goddess. Can you provide more info as to where these thoughts come from?

Lol well thank you Riddlenox

Most of this was knowledge I had to go to school for. I took a year course studying hypnosis and recently got my certifications to practice.

But a lot the energy healing and all the discussions that have to do with the concepts of the mind I had to study for my certs.

I would love to share more if anyone is interested.

Please, it's Connor or Connor Lidell when people I know are addressing me. hahaha.

That seems very interesting. I know I'd like to know more about that.

Chinese medicine has been successfully treating people for thousands of years but a lot of it can't be "proved" according to current scientific abilities.

You can just use statistics for that. look at life expectancy, infantile mortality rates. compare traditional medicine times to modern medicine times. black death vs swine flu. In fact, that's how modern medicine works. They can only prove their medicine works by administrating it to large amounts of people (with various conditions, health habits, etc), have a large control (placebo) group. Developing new drugs isn't expensive because of the machinery, chemicals or researchers required (they dont have a good salary)... But because the testing phase is insanely long and simple hickups are major drawbacks... Scientific method + regulations. Overall, it works well I'd say. The theory of chi, homeopathy, or "chemical X will bleach your disease" does not constitute proof.

ren wrote:

Chinese medicine has been successfully treating people for thousands of years but a lot of it can't be "proved" according to current scientific abilities.

You can just use statistics for that. look at life expectancy, infantile mortality rates. compare traditional medicine times to modern medicine times. black death vs swine flu. In fact, that's how modern medicine works. They can only prove their medicine works by administrating it to large amounts of people (with various conditions, health habits, etc), have a large control (placebo) group. Developing new drugs isn't expensive because of the machinery, chemicals or researchers required (they dont have a good salary)... But because the testing phase is insanely long and simple hickups are major drawbacks... Scientific method + regulations. Overall, it works well I'd say. The theory of chi, homeopathy, or "chemical X will bleach your disease" does not constitute proof.

Have you ever come across the idea of "the fear of disaese" and the "disease of fear"...?

I have a film here called "The twilight samurai"... right at the begining of the film it has a naration from a young girl about her mother dying. It literally shows the woman on her death bed, and that the girl was not allowed near her since she could remember because her mother had "consumption"... of course the film didn't portray a tence atmosfear simply because the mother had died... there was weeping ofcourse. But as we should all relise, crying doesn't come from fear.

There are alot of people. Infact it's quite hard to get away from (fear of disease?) that have been diagnosed with some kind of mental illness (a few members of our comunity)...Do they have brain disease? If so why haven't they been give nerological treatment just like anyone else?

Considering the amount of "acceptable" side effects listed for most modern medicines that have passed such rigorous testing, I fail to see how anything can be considered as suitable. A few years ago I was prescribed a common anti-inflammatory that was mass produced, regulated and approved and yet listed such potential side effects as "blindness, paralysis and death". In that regard, no medicine is safe!

Everyone has the right to choose their own methods of healthcare. Forcing someone to undergo complementary therapy against their will would be just as immoral as forcing drugs onto people that don't want them. If you don't believe that a particular approach works, then don't use it. It's really that simple.

But don't drink the water because you really could be in trouble from all those pharmaceuticals....http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-drugs-tap-water_N.htm ;)