That's so gay!

ren wrote: Then why promote the feeling insecure route over the everyone laughs route? How is it Jedi to encourage a system where people are constantly being manipulated by their emotions (and as such being manipulated by other people through their emotion) instead of a system where no-one takes anything too personally?

Your wording confuses me a bit, but I think I understand...

I believe I have been promoting "some need to be more sensitive, and others less sensitive", have I not?

We are all manipulated, voluntarily, or not, and manipulate, voluntarily or not, once in a while...

You can tell people to suck it up, that they are only words, and choose to speak like you like, and then you can also miss out on great conversations, and intelligent people, who just dont really want to be around you... That's fine, you are no worse off, and neither are they...

When someone tells you, "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and you point out that that is not necessarily true, you are correct...

However, we are not flies, and as an former exterminator, it takes a combination of baits to attract your target...

So, while we tell some to suck it up, and remember they are just words, some people are not as far along as others, and need the time to get to the point where they are just words... Till they do, we, as responsible Jedi, need to remember that whatever we say may affect others...

You can tell people to suck it up, that they are only words, and choose to speak like you like, and then you can also miss out on great conversations, and intelligent people, who just dont really want to be around you... That's fine, you are no worse off, and neither are they...

Agreed. I wouldnt want to be around people like this anyway. So really, making no effort to conceal our true selves only serves to speed up the "rejection" process. I had never thought of it this way and it makes a lot of sense.
I think it's fair to assume people who do make the effort really fear "rejection", it's not that they want to (appear to) be someone they are not.

ren wrote: I think it's fair to assume people who do make the effort really fear "rejection", it's not that they want to (appear to) be someone they are not.

Im probably just being thick, but im not sure I understand how that assumption can be made?

ren wrote:

You can tell people to suck it up, that they are only words, and choose to speak like you like, and then you can also miss out on great conversations, and intelligent people, who just dont really want to be around you... That's fine, you are no worse off, and neither are they...

Agreed. I wouldnt want to be around people like this anyway. So really, making no effort to conceal our true selves only serves to speed up the "rejection" process. I had never thought of it this way and it makes a lot of sense.
I think it's fair to assume people who do make the effort really fear "rejection", it's not that they want to (appear to) be someone they are not.

(For those of you unaware, this is a long, ongoing conversation... Neither Ren nor I are upset, and have had many great conversations......)

Really? You are pretty well surrounded by people who are concerned, to varying degrees, about the feelings of others, and, how our words and actions affect them...

Do you think I'm "fake", that this is not truly who I am?

And, do you really think I fear rejection? Lol...

I do like being liked, I like having friends, and whatever... But I'm not afraid of being alone either...

And yet, I make the effort...

I want to ask you something, and its personal, so, sending a PM...

It seems natural for hearing language to influence emotions, so to deny responsibility for the impact of ones language onto other people seems a bit unusual. It takes a bit of effort and training to close oneself down to responding emotionally and there can be all sorts of historical reasons why sensitivities exist which make it even harder - maybe impossible. I'm not saying its impossible though, the brain is pretty powerful, it just seems an unusual expectation to apply over everyone.

So, my opinion would be that carefree freedom of expression sounds inversely proportional to knowledge of the audience - no knowledge, then be diplomatic and compassionate. With knowledge of individuals comes awareness of what can be acceptable to them (and unacceptable). Diplomatic and compassionate does sound a bit boring but its polite to get to know someone a bit at first I think.

I find topics referring to personal identity are discussed very passionately, and from extremely variant voices, in all groups: family, religion, friends, or at work. I see that separated sense of self at the heart of the human condition. :ohmy:

When the phrase (or label) is . . . . “that’s so gay” or one of many other phrases (or labels), said by others in the media, in ear shot or to a person directly . . . .my person philosophies have become the same . . .

* people will say what they will say, I try to accept things as they are. This practice helps me to accept myself.

* when my “sensitive button” is triggered, I have come to learn that it is my opportunity to go within and accept things about myself. This practice helps me to accept others.

**Cause and Effect are one. . given our inter-connectivity and The Force, I don’t see them as separate***

**acceptance doesn’t always come in a nice neat package. . . “just accept”. . .it is a process of inquiry, discovery and patience . . and it occurs over time. . . tweak, adjust, tweak . .

**for myself, I consider the following thinking a fantasy: “so and so said (or didn’t) say this or that. . . ” Why do I consider it a fantasy? Because they did say it! Because they didn’t say it!.
I am hard on myself. :woohoo:

**another fantasy I had to address is “how do I make them stop”. All the times I had this fantasy, I was avoiding the real question (as others have mentioned) Why does it bother me?

For myself, I do sit back and say . .”they are words . . just words. . why am I disturbed?” What do I believe about these words as to perception of self? Why do I feel separate from another human because of words????

I stay open to learn for myself that overcoming ego includes not only “big shot/better than” but also “little sh*t/less than”. Either side of the coin, perpetuates separateness.

Jedi practice taking the path of overcoming ego. It seems we stand a better chance to effect change in the world and to be truly helpful by utilizing wisdom sourced in our own inner peace (and sanity) versus actions and banners sourced in emotion. It seems we get more creative and can better utilize our talent and abilities by doing so also.

Just a few . . . :blink: . . . thoughts on aspects of my spiritual practice and Jedi practice (which I can apply to any circumtance actually).

Brenna wrote:

ren wrote: I think it's fair to assume people who do make the effort really fear "rejection", it's not that they want to (appear to) be someone they are not.

Im probably just being thick, but im not sure I understand how that assumption can be made?

"and then you can also miss out on great conversations, and intelligent people, who just dont really want to be around you..."

It looks to me like people make efforts for the purpose of gaining something from people who wouldn't otherwise like them. Therefore I make the assumption that it is because they fear missing out on something/being rejected.

Now of course everyone else calls that "social whoring", a well documented phenomenon in humans and our primate cousins. but what one gets out of it is fake love/appreciation instead of real money... Doesn't feel right to put two very different things in the same bag.

ren wrote:

Brenna wrote:

ren wrote: I think it's fair to assume people who do make the effort really fear "rejection", it's not that they want to (appear to) be someone they are not.

Im probably just being thick, but im not sure I understand how that assumption can be made?

"and then you can also miss out on great conversations, and intelligent people, who just dont really want to be around you..."

It looks to me like people make efforts for the purpose of gaining something from people who wouldn't otherwise like them. Therefore I make the assumption that it is because they fear missing out on something/being rejected.

Now of course everyone else calls that "social whoring", a well documented phenomenon in humans and our primate cousins. but what one gets out of it is fake love/appreciation instead of real money... Doesn't feel right to put two very different things in the same bag.

ok... I think im getting what you mean. What if for instance I am on a train beside a person I dont know and will never see again. And they ask me something and I am pleasant in return. I gain nothing from them. Would that still be "social whoring"? Is the exchange fake?

"ok... I think im getting what you mean. What if for instance I am on a train beside a person I dont know and will never see again. And they ask me something and I am pleasant in return. I gain nothing from them. Would that still be "social whoring"? Is the exchange fake?"

@Brenna

The example you gave doesn't include the motivation for smiling back, so it can't be qualified or disqualified either way.

It seems social whoring is the extreme of people pleasing.

I have heard people talk about prostituting one's self for love (meaning with or without sexual transaction and love/approval as the exchange).

Based on what Ren posts, technically,they are probably synonmous.

Does there need to be a motivation for being pleasant or polite?