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Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
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05 Feb 2015 20:46 #180379
by RosalynJ
I can agree with some sentiments here, particularly the last part. One must wonder (and this is on both sides) where people are getting their information from. That'll make all the difference in the world as to whether someone is on one side or the other.
Pax Per Ministerium
Replied by RosalynJ on topic Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
elizabeth wrote: Just because people choose to say no to vaccination is not an indicator of wether they care about others..
It is a right to choose..
Many intelligent caring people make this choice, they are not idiots, they DO there research and base their choice on that.
Just because it doesn't fall in line with what you believe doesn't make it wrong!!!
I can agree with some sentiments here, particularly the last part. One must wonder (and this is on both sides) where people are getting their information from. That'll make all the difference in the world as to whether someone is on one side or the other.
Pax Per Ministerium
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05 Feb 2015 20:46 #180380
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I sincerely sympothise with your situation Steam. I can't pretend to understand that. I also know that I will do anything I can to protect my family. I also thank you for the link.
However, I will still disagree with the need to mandate vaccinations, though every one really, really should get vaccinated.
To me it's like smoking cigarettes. (an analogy I'm surprised it took me this long to come up with). I don't smoke, I don't like the fact that other people smoke. I don't like the fact that there is smoke in the air outside both entrances to my job and usually outside my apartment. That does effect my health. I still won't agree to make it illegal, though I enjoy going places where you're not allowed to smoke.
This will probably be my last post on the subject barring exciting new information. Though I will continue to watch with interest.
Replied by on topic Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
steamboat28 wrote:
Warning: Spoiler!
I sincerely sympothise with your situation Steam. I can't pretend to understand that. I also know that I will do anything I can to protect my family. I also thank you for the link.
However, I will still disagree with the need to mandate vaccinations, though every one really, really should get vaccinated.
To me it's like smoking cigarettes. (an analogy I'm surprised it took me this long to come up with). I don't smoke, I don't like the fact that other people smoke. I don't like the fact that there is smoke in the air outside both entrances to my job and usually outside my apartment. That does effect my health. I still won't agree to make it illegal, though I enjoy going places where you're not allowed to smoke.
This will probably be my last post on the subject barring exciting new information. Though I will continue to watch with interest.
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05 Feb 2015 20:50 #180381
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Replied by on topic Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
Perhaps I'm pouring gas on a fire here, but this flow chart did make me laugh :laugh: :evil:
- steamboat28
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- Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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05 Feb 2015 20:52 - 05 Feb 2015 20:55 #180383
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Replied by on topic Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
I don't think coercing people to vaccinate is the right solution. I think that every business, organization, and institution should be allowed to refuse entry and services on the premises of a person's vaccination status. Ideally, I would like it to be such that people who don't get vaccines would be social outcasts forced to live outside of the public's central places (they can start their own version of a leper colony). Infecting someone with a preventable disease should be considered assault by negligence and if they die, homicidal negligence.
For me this isn't just a mental exercise, a medical debate, or a libertarian fantasy; for me this is personal. I have friends who would die if they were exposed to these preventable diseases. My friends rely on the fact that vaccination is almost a given, but now that anti-vaxxing has become a fad, my friends have to be more cautious (none of them are going to Disney any time soon). Furthermore, I think we need to challenge this attitude about neurodivergence that disturbs me. Let's pretend that some incredibly small fraction of the population who receives vaccinations were to get autism because of it. Is autism such a horrible thing that we would rather risk our children dying than have an autistic child? The anti-vax rhetoric is awful from start to finish, incredibly misinformed and I think that the higher-ups in this movement should be put on charges for inciting the public to mass hysteria and willful ignorance leading to the death and infection of hundreds (if not thousands) of people.
Also to Steamboat's well-sourced argument
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For me this isn't just a mental exercise, a medical debate, or a libertarian fantasy; for me this is personal. I have friends who would die if they were exposed to these preventable diseases. My friends rely on the fact that vaccination is almost a given, but now that anti-vaxxing has become a fad, my friends have to be more cautious (none of them are going to Disney any time soon). Furthermore, I think we need to challenge this attitude about neurodivergence that disturbs me. Let's pretend that some incredibly small fraction of the population who receives vaccinations were to get autism because of it. Is autism such a horrible thing that we would rather risk our children dying than have an autistic child? The anti-vax rhetoric is awful from start to finish, incredibly misinformed and I think that the higher-ups in this movement should be put on charges for inciting the public to mass hysteria and willful ignorance leading to the death and infection of hundreds (if not thousands) of people.
Also to Steamboat's well-sourced argument
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Last edit: 05 Feb 2015 20:55 by .
05 Feb 2015 21:00 #180384
by Kit
Replied by Kit on topic Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!
Goken, the numbers aren't there yet because the older generations understood what a godsend (if you'll excuse the word )vaccinations are. They lived through those diseases. They know the pain and suffering they cause. So most of my generation was vaccinated. It's only more recently become the 'cool' thing to not vaccinate due to wishy-washy excuses (I say wishy-washy because I have yet to see a reason that vaccinations are more harmful than helpful and backed by scientific studies) so more kids are not vaccinated which drops the overall percentage of herd vaccinations which cause those people who CAN'T get vaccinations to become susceptible to those preventable diseases. We have forgotten how horrible these diseases are. They're not just a cold, you feel bad for a week, and yay all better! There is a chance (and a high enough one to be scary) that you come out physically or mentally disabled, or die. If that's something you can prevent for extremely low risk, wouldn't you?
Read Roald Dahl's Powerful Pro-Vaccination Letter (From 1988)
Another problem is anti-vaxxers seem to flock together. So that's an even more concentrated location of lack of vaccinations. This report also shows the cases of measles. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/20/378630798/parents-who-shun-vaccines-tend-to-cluster-boosting-childrens-risk (this is the article that has the towns near me on the list *shudder*
And the scary thing about measles is how quickly it spreads. You can spread it before the rash shows up, and if you cough in a room and wander out, anybody who walks in that room WITHIN TWO HOURS can contract the measles from you.
More reading: Vaccine Refusal Has Helped Drive U.S. Measles Cases To A 20-Year High
Driving drunk is just as selfish and as much of a public hazard as not getting vaccinations. It's not just you that you're affecting, you're putting the rest of the community at risk as well. That's why I vilify those who don't vaccinate as badly as those who drive drunk. Their personal choice has a high probability of badly affecting the lives of those around them.
Zenchi found the cure!! You have to submit a vaccination record in order to get electricity!
)vaccinations are. They lived through those diseases. They know the pain and suffering they cause. So most of my generation was vaccinated. It's only more recently become the 'cool' thing to not vaccinate due to wishy-washy excuses (I say wishy-washy because I have yet to see a reason that vaccinations are more harmful than helpful and backed by scientific studies) so more kids are not vaccinated which drops the overall percentage of herd vaccinations which cause those people who CAN'T get vaccinations to become susceptible to those preventable diseases. We have forgotten how horrible these diseases are. They're not just a cold, you feel bad for a week, and yay all better! There is a chance (and a high enough one to be scary) that you come out physically or mentally disabled, or die. If that's something you can prevent for extremely low risk, wouldn't you?Read Roald Dahl's Powerful Pro-Vaccination Letter (From 1988)
Another problem is anti-vaxxers seem to flock together. So that's an even more concentrated location of lack of vaccinations. This report also shows the cases of measles. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/20/378630798/parents-who-shun-vaccines-tend-to-cluster-boosting-childrens-risk (this is the article that has the towns near me on the list *shudder*
And the scary thing about measles is how quickly it spreads. You can spread it before the rash shows up, and if you cough in a room and wander out, anybody who walks in that room WITHIN TWO HOURS can contract the measles from you.
More reading: Vaccine Refusal Has Helped Drive U.S. Measles Cases To A 20-Year High
Driving drunk is just as selfish and as much of a public hazard as not getting vaccinations. It's not just you that you're affecting, you're putting the rest of the community at risk as well. That's why I vilify those who don't vaccinate as badly as those who drive drunk. Their personal choice has a high probability of badly affecting the lives of those around them.
Zenchi found the cure!! You have to submit a vaccination record in order to get electricity!
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