Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!

Personally, I'd rather be vaccinated than risk death.

Edan wrote: Personally, I'd rather be vaccinated than risk death.

You risk death by accepting and taking the vaccination. In fact you even sign a waiver saying you know, understand and accept that risk.

I have a lot of thoughts on this. I'm going to blow through them rather quickly, and then if I'm less rage-filled later, come back and expand on some of my talking points.

1. Vaccines do not cause autism. The only "evidence" of this at all was a single study that was later retracted because it was an "elaborate fraud." There is no causal link whatsoever between vaccinations and autism. None. At all. Period. Anywhere in the ****ing world. None.
2. The seeming rise in autism is not because the incidence rate of autism is increasing. I know that will confuse some of you, but you're probably the same ones who think Isaac Newton "invented" gravity. Why? Because it's the same: the rise in the number of autism cases in the modern world isn't because autism is happening more often, it's because we're getting better at defining and detecting autism. Nothing in your "modern diet" or "chemtrails" or "omgvaxxiiiiiinez" is doing it. We just have better diagnostic capabilities now, so more cases are getting the attention they require.
3. Autistic people are not the boogeyman. When you say "vaccines cause autism", not only are you being scientifically ignorant because you listened to some bleach-blonde washed-up celebrity bimbo, but you're also being outright insulting. Saying "vaccines cause autism" is just a polite way of saying "I would rather risk the death of my child than to have an autistic child." My two best friends (and their children) are autistic. I cannot express to you how completely offensive that idea is.
4. "Boosting" your immune system naturally does not work better than vaccination. Many "natural immune system" advocates will say that exposure to the disease is far better than getting a vaccine, and is safer, and "the way our bodies were meant to work." These people have a fundamental misunderstanding of vaccination, because that is literally what a ****ing vaccine does, only a vaccine does it in a controlled dosage, in a controlled environment, intentionally, without the nasty side effects of paralysis and death that your child would suffer getting some of these diseases the "natural" way.
5. Anti-vaxxers are potential murderers. There are a lot of immunocompromised people in my kith and kin. They cannot get vaccinated because of immunodeficiency disorders, cancer therapies, and many other reasons. By joining the "anti-vaxx" bandwagon, you're telling me that your desire to feel validated through s**t science, and your right to exercise bad decisionmaking on behalf of your child, is more important than my friends and familiy staying alive. Let me say that again: you are literally killing people who rely on herd immunity because of their immunocompromised status.
6. You are solely responsible for the resurgence of things we eradicated from this continent decades ago. My phone doesn't know the word "polio." It's not in its autocorrect. Vaccines did that. You're undoing all that work. Measles cases skyrocketed in 2014, and smallpox is on the verge of making a comeback. Completely preventable diseases are ravaging the US in ridiculously large numbers because people too stupid to make logically-sound decisions think they know more than the entirety of the world's healthcare and scientific professionals on a matter they don't have diplomas to cover.

This is nonsense. I don't want to mandate vaccinations for everyone, but I damn sure think we should create laws that prohibit willingly unvaccinated individuals from interacting with the public at large. If your kid can get a vaccine and you choose for them not to, they shouldn't get to go to a public school. Period.

This whole movement is utterly ridiculous.

I've never signed a waver form (I am in the UK). Tetanus kills almost immediately. Polio is debilitating. I trust my doctors.

Respectfully, I feel like the vaccination argument warrants as much time and effort as whether or not the sky is blue on a clear day. There has not been any peer-reviewed, clinical evidence linking vaccination with autism. There have been wild claims and discredited studies, but that's it.

"Then why did I get sick?" Because, while vaccines are excellent science, they are not perfect.
"Merck made a ton of money off vaccines!" If I sell a solid product to lots of people, I will make money too.

Public Policy, however, is a different matter. I think relatively few of us want to write laws that compel behavior, at least in principle. No one wants to wrestle a child to the ground and stick him or her with a dose of MMR, even if it would be inarguably good for them, barring certain health concerns. I have a friend who is unable to receive vaccines because of an allergy to certain egg products. She relies on the rest of us to remain well.

Herd immunity only works if as much of the herd as possible participates. I must confess I am unsure of how a law might or should be enforced on the issue. I am not in favor of the use of force, but I don't want someone else's ill-educated choices, however well-intentioned, to put other children at risk.

For instance, should the parents of very young children who were exposed to measles at Disney by children of people who opted not to vaccinate have legal recourse? The epidemiology on this one is still unfinished, but if parents against vaccination indeed created the exposure, are they legally responsible for the deaths of other children?

An extreme question, perhaps, but I suspect that the epidemiological findings surrounding this whole Disney Land fiasco could alter the legal debate over vaccination significantly.

Kitsu Tails wrote: Forcing Legal obligations on vaccinations means you are taking away my rights as an American Citizen to choose freely how to live my life. So, I do not support it.

Just my two cents

Your rights end where mine begin and you are risking the lives of my family and others. I'm all for personal choice but when it involves the health of another individual, there should be limitations on it. There are all sorts of laws on firearms because of the harm they can cause people. Not getting vaccinations are no different.

I wouldn't have a two-page vaccination record if they didn't work. The military does not spend money that massively that frivolously. Even the FLU vaccine is required for us.

There's nothing wishy-washy in vaccinations.

Kamizu wrote: Your rights end where mine begin and you are risking the lives of my family and others. I'm all for personal choice but when it involves the health of another individual, there should be limitations on it.

This. Exactly.

It's against the law to operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated because it could kill other people.
Why are the potential dangers of willing non-vaccination not similarly regulated?

The big deal here is 10% of people who get vaccinated don't get immunity which means these unvaccinated people could easy kill you. We don't let people drink and rive or drive recklessly because they could kill you, it's not a question of freedom of choice ,but a matter of public safety.

steamboat28 wrote:

Kamizu wrote: Your rights end where mine begin and you are risking the lives of my family and others. I'm all for personal choice but when it involves the health of another individual, there should be limitations on it.

This. Exactly.

It's against the law to operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated because it could kill other people.
Why are the potential dangers of willing non-vaccination not similarly regulated?

Lol, you said the same thing as I was typing this.

Vesha wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Kamizu wrote: Your rights end where mine begin and you are risking the lives of my family and others. I'm all for personal choice but when it involves the health of another individual, there should be limitations on it.

This. Exactly.

It's against the law to operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated because it could kill other people.
Why are the potential dangers of willing non-vaccination not similarly regulated?

Lol, you said the same thing as I was typing this.

lol my firearm example may have sucked but at least there's other people who have better ones