IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: Initiate Programme Update

ren wrote:

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

Um, yes...

Yes I am...

But we did debate its placement, and after some talking thought, that in the front, so that a newb would know who to ask, or that they could help a guest by referring them to the right person, would be a good thing to know up front....

No back-slapping or ego-boosting...

Sort of a "here is the list of people to ask questions to, if a question arises"...

Make you feel better?...

Ive not paid much attention previously, because... well, I'm finished with the IP, and I don't mean to sound impertinent, but is it just me or is the IP beginning to look a lot like "Things my Master likes" :whistle: :blink:

Putting it up front makes just as much sense as having Campbell first ever did. Whilst I enjoyed that part of the IP it always felt like a bit of an "apology" for what we do here... "You can make a religion out of Star Wars, honest!".

Was going to make the who to go to for what point myself... how many new members come on asking Joseph Campbell's opinion of the symbolism of caves in the construction of churches, vs " How do I become an Apprentice?", "Who do I go to for x?" etc

Something's got to go first... why not something which may be of immediate practical use?

Brenna wrote: Ive not paid much attention previously, because... well, I'm finished with the IP, and I don't mean to sound impertinent, but is it just me or is the IP beginning to look a lot like "Things my Master likes" :whistle: :blink:

Lol, actually the krishnamurti was proposed by ren a long while ago. The Mindwalk? Yes that, but also in response to people complaining about the field lol.

Already we ask them to read the FAQ, which is insanely long and people just don't do it anyway. That's why when people (who aren't members) log-in they're redirected to a page that tells them what to do... And one of the first things they're told is:

-believe in the force
-accept doctrine
-take the oath
-apply

With the ugly, unnecessary administrative stuff having lower importance than the Force and the Doctrine. A training course (which should be jediism 101) should not make something like the structure of the order a priority, especially not for someone who has essentially just registered an account.

It is difficult to find a "right" ordering for the IP... personal tools are important, but it can't really be at the beginning... Similarly I'd prefer to start with essays, move on to other things, then revisit the essays...




...And for goodness' sake, stop debating this! Design by committee makes William Shakespeare look like an amateur at tragedy. :silly:

Akkarin wrote:

ren wrote:

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

About a minute ago I actually added a line saying that they may begin at another lesson and revisit this at a later date.

Sounds smart. When you place something first but tell people they don't have to do it first, those who really don't want to do it right then and there will bypass it while the majority of people will do it first.

We used to have that Lesson One that ask the student to know the structure and roles of the temple staff... Only we told them that nothing was required of them, and they seemed to most often skip it...

Then, when we updated, we dropped that part....

So, this is more like an open book exam, or a little research... Its not hard, and copy/pasting is easy enough to do... lol...

Even the FAQ, it isnt really there to read like a article, it is there as a source of info...

"Well, I PMed Jestor and Akkarin, and no answer yet, I wonder if the FAQ will have anything on it?"

The FAQ, if we are lucky, gets a quick glance, and then they move onto the meat of TOTJO...

[strike]Making fun of Jestor...[/strike] Er, I mean being Jedi....:lol:...

Ren wrote: That's why when people (who aren't members) log-in they're redirected to a page that tells them what to do...And one of the first things they're told is:

-believe in the force
-accept doctrine
-take the oath
-apply

And really, all we should be asking is for manners anyone would expect of their guests....

Because, everyone is a guest, until they decide otherwise...

Some dont want to be members of totjo, and thats fine... But, manners and etiquette should be understood...

Then Ren wrote: With the ugly, unnecessary administrative stuff having lower importance than the Force and the Doctrine. A training course (which should be jediism 101) should not make something like the structure of the order a priority, especially not for someone who has essentially just registered an account.

It is difficult to find a "right" ordering for the IP... personal tools are important, but it can't really be at the beginning... Similarly I'd prefer to start with essays, move on to other things, then revisit the essays...

The ugliness of the administration is only ask to be learned by those wanting to take the training...

A guest will never see it if they never read the IP....

And, its not like we are asking for undying loyalty to TOTJO... Not even the Oath asks for loyalty to TOTJO...

Only loyalty to the "Force"... And even that we dont define... Leaving that to the individual to define for them self...

it's not about being loyal or not, or about the organization being right or wrong...It's about priorities...

The system is there to support the beliefs, not the other way around...

Yes sir, it is...

And when I was in school, the didnt give me my books, and allow me to wander the halls...

We met the admin staff, and learned the rules before ever learning anything, IF we learned anything, :lol:....

By knowing that Knights are there to help answer their questions, that it is their JOBS here at TOTJO, then, they know that it "isnt a bother"...

I get "Sorry to bother you" or "I have a dumb question" all the time...

No one bothers me, and their are no dumb questions...

So, knowing there is support, and who that is, for the learning part, does help with the beliefs...

I feel I am not being clear still....

Hmmm....

The staff, is here to support the student, who is doing the IP, to support their belief...

And, one of my favorite, things to say: "We are all here to help one another, only some people forget that."

By knowing that Knights are there to help answer their questions, that it is their JOBS here at TOTJO, then, they know that it "isnt a bother"...

this was already in the IP introduction, at least the one I made. And all this stuff is in the FAQ...