IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: Initiate Programme Update

Out of curiosity... what stuff considered clerical? Just curious.

Akkarin wrote: Councillor is most definitely an office, where does it say it is a status V?

Well, it doesn't specifically say it, but to me this implies that FAQ 16 lists statuses:

A 'Status' is related to the level of rights and responsibilities (some legal) that a member has in the Temple. (See FaQ #16)

The office of Councillor is contained within FAQ 16.

If you then click on FAQ 25 as directed for viewing offices:

An 'Office' is a specific position held by a person that relates to specific tasks and responsibilities. (See FaQ #25)

It takes you to a list of roles that does not include that of Councillor (amongst others).

I don't think I'm explaining very well but do you see what I mean?

I've seen ranks and titles and offices, but you know what I remember most? The people. I can name quite a few Jedi here I consider friends, and I might not guess the right rank for half of them.

I'm a big fan of information and I think the more, the better. That way I can decide if I want to pursue something or not. I appreciate the information in the new lesson, and the people who took the time to create it. That being said, I'm just a collection of star parts and energy like anyone else, and most days I'm just grateful to be on the path.

If the IP isn't right for someone, they won't do it. If Jediism isn't right for someone, they may leave. They also might stay just for the fun of watching the rest of us argue about stuff. A Jedi's journey is and should be a unique and personal one. The Force led me here, and I choose to do the IP and I choose to stay. That level of choice is far more freedom than I felt I had in my past religious experiences.

The differentiation between rank/status/office is only useful for administrative purposes.

Office is a job.
Rank is more or less an indication of one's advancement on the Jedi path.
Clergy rank is more or less and indication of one's advancement on the clerical path (supply of religious services)
Status is a... status. Not indicative of hierarchy (like rank) or a particular position (like an office), but still meaningful in some other way. "temple member" for instance isn't indicative of anything other than a user whom totjo considers to be a Jedi.

Councillor is a bit of a special case, because councillors are above jedi and clergy hierarchy, but it's something people get promoted to and resign from. It is an indication of one's understanding of the Jedi path, one's understanding of what totjo does, and also the status of one who takes the order to the next level.

historically there was only one rank bar, but it included regular and clerical rank. The cardinals (now councillors) were usually also bishops but not always. The office of cardinal basically "replaced" the regular rank, but used the colour red like masters. It used to be that the rite leaders would automatically become cardinals and bishops. And grandmasters. And also would get a Doctorate of divinity free of charge.

If someone showed interest in a rite, but no-one else did, and the leader was nowhere to be found, they could get to knighthood without even completing the IP, then become rite leader, cardinal, bishop, grandmaster, doctor with only an ordination (which could be performed by any bishop). there was no clergy training at all back then.

Hello everyone,
Lesson 0 is too long because there is too much material to absorb. If I were a member going through the IP I wouldn't bother with lesson 0 because I don't need to know that to work through the training. In regards to members seeking support from those higher up, there should be no wrong door. As Jester has pointed out, we are all here to answer questions and provide support.
I would like to make a suggestion: Is there some way to make a "birds-eye-view" document of things that are the MOST relevant to a newcomer? I can work on it if given permission. It will be no longer than one page (750 words) and contain all of the information necessary with links attached.

Rosalyn J wrote: Hello everyone,
Lesson 0 is too long because there is too much material to absorb. If I were a member going through the IP I wouldn't bother with lesson 0 because I don't need to know that to work through the training. In regards to members seeking support from those higher up, there should be no wrong door. As Jester has pointed out, we are all here to answer questions and provide support.
I would like to make a suggestion: Is there some way to make a "birds-eye-view" document of things that are the MOST relevant to a newcomer? I can work on it if given permission. It will be no longer than one page (750 words) and contain all of the information necessary with links attached.

isn't that what the FAQ is for?

I'm not sure I agree it's too long... when you consider lesson 1 is watching and analysing 6-8 hours of video, lesson 2 is reading a 118 page book, and even lessons 3 and 4 involve spending about 90 minutes on material whichever route you take... having an initial lesson reading and summarising a few sections of the FAQ and supporting pages really doesn't seem like a big ask to me.

However I do agree there should be "no wrong door" and I don't believe there is such a thing here, but I do see value in making people aware of those best equipped to help them (ie Jestor, rather than me, then me send them along to Jestor). How else are we expecting them to become "doors" themselves?

I suggest Lesson 0 is asking new members to create the document you're describing themselves Ros: they're putting together their own list of useful info about the Temple's structure.

Ok, I can accept that

After taking on board feedback lesson 0, Temple Structure, has been changed.

Back to Beginning
This is purely an administrative lesson, if you wish to begin with a more enlightening or profound lesson, and revisit this at a later date, then please begin at lesson one (Myth) and onwards.
To complete this lesson ('Temple Structure') please complete each task.
As a member of our organisation it will help to understand how it is structured.

Temple Structure

Task 1 - What are the non-Clerical ranks and what are their responsibilities?
Task 2 - What Offices are there in the Temple and what are their responsibilities? (It would be useful also to know who occupies each one)
Task 3 - Where might one find this information?

Akkarin wrote: After taking on board feedback lesson 0, Temple Structure, has been changed.

Back to Beginning
This is purely an administrative lesson, if you wish to begin with a more enlightening or profound lesson, and revisit this at a later date, then please begin at lesson one (Myth) and onwards.
To complete this lesson ('Temple Structure') please complete each task.
As a member of our organisation it will help to understand how it is structured.

Temple Structure

Task 1 - What are the non-Clerical ranks and what are their responsibilities?
Task 2 - What Offices are there in the Temple and what are their responsibilities? (It would be useful also to know who occupies each one)
Task 3 - Where might one find this information?

Does this mean I have to go back and redo it...?