Is Trumps Boarder Wall Antithetical To Jedi Doctrine?

If you leave the dog outside in your car or even you yard without food or water in sweltering heat this is typically seen as animal abuse.

Sorry for the repeat post. Still new to this forum

JamesSand wrote:

(I have, with an intent to see your side - looked through the doctrine. I can not see that a wall between two lawfully governed nations is any more against our doctrine than the colorbond fence that keeps my dogs in the yard....)

If you leave the dog outside in your car or even you yard without food or water in sweltering heat this is typically seen as animal abuse.

You have a duty if care as its owner.... but the US or any nation does not have the capacity nor assigned duty of care over all humans on the planet! It quite literally what a nation is, the boundary between citizens and non citizens. A nation has responsibilities to its citizens far far in excess of those to non-citizens. Your beef might better be with the Mexican government (if I read your meaning correctly).

CaesarEJW wrote:

Well, obviously a WALL isn't against the doctrine.
If you don't live in the US, there are a lot of underlying elements that you probably aren't aware of.

It isn't JUST the wall, there is a lot of bigotry and racial tension behind the whole idea.
That's what it is about more than anything.
Not to mention our current Administration's habit of forcibly separating children from their parents and putting these kids in internment camps with inhumane living conditions.
Seriously.
This whole wall thing is an expression of power and bigotry, it has no real practical purpose.

That's why it is contradictory to our doctrine because it is literally all about discrimination, fear, prejudice, and it all stems from ignorance and a lack of compassion.

(and "lawfully governed" is a bit of a stretch, both nations have corrupt governments)

***CONTENT WARNING***:Below is posted word for word excerpts of the Jedi Doctrine. If you are sensitive to such views and perspectives as those promoted by this church, please avert your eyes while scrolling down to the next post***


I agree with everything stated above. The point which specifically stands out as running counter to Jedi doctrine is

Jedi Believe
" ...In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty....
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin...
In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures..."

It seems uncontroversial to state that the point of building a physical barrier to prevent travelers from Mexico, Central and South America from entering North America is, by definition, preventing them from the freedom of self determination on the basis of national origin and ethnicity.

Another point which is perhaps not know to many who casually consider this subject from the callus detached technical perspective which attempts to view the wall purely as a piece of technology which either does or does not succeed in its intended purpose of preventing unlawful immigration, is the morality rate of those who attempt to cross.

here is an excerpt from the infallible all knowing Wikipedia

" The group Border Angels estimates that since 1994, about 10,000 people have died in their attempt to cross border.[3] According to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, 7,216 people have died crossing the U.S–Mexico border between 1998 and 2017.[4] In 2005, more than 500 died across the entire U.S.–Mexico border.[5] The number of yearly border crossing deaths doubled from 1995 to 2005, before declining.[6] The statistics reflect only known deaths and do not include those who have never been found. "

People are dying in the desert from this wall and policy. It is a form of cruel and unusual punishment causing death as a result of national origin.

Whatever the real numbers are, one thing remains true; these deaths were an avoidable and direct consequence of boarder policy. To construct technology which causes death from dehydration, hypothermia and drowning seems to be, again, directly in conflict with aspects of the doctrine.

Adder wrote: You have a duty if care as its owner.... but the US or any nation does not have the capacity nor assigned duty of care over all humans on the planet! It quite literally what a nation is, the boundary between citizens and non citizens. A nation has responsibilities to its citizens far far in excess of those to non-citizens. Your beef might better be with the Mexican government (if I read your meaning correctly).

An astute point indeed Adder. The unstated premise here is that the U.S has little or no responsibilities to ensure the well-being of non-citizens while they remain outside its boarders. However, does it then follow that once detected or caught those who attempt to exist within the boarders of the nation illegally are to be subject to any form of abuse and cruelty which the "host" nation would not subject its own citizens to?

In other words, is a nation which claims to have values similar to the Jedi doctrine of nondiscrimination and protection from cruel and unusual punishment suddenly removed from their moral obligations when interacting with non citizens? If a Jedi claims to live according to the doctrines values still in line with those values if they only express them only towards fellow members but not towards people of other religious practices? Of course not.

If you do something your not meant to do, then why would someone else be responsible for making sure you don't get hurt trying to do it! If anyone is it's the Mexican government... until they cross the border. The wall could be argued as a measure to dissuade people from trying and therefore the most effective way to stop them failing! Given they shouldn't be doing it to begin with the fact it also makes it harder for those who do try just adds more reasons for it. It seems to only really come down to cost - unless the argument is for an open border.

Once crossing the border of course they have a duty of care... but its proportional to the circumstance and not equivilant to a citizen, in that the duty is to citizens first and as such the broader immigration policy serves the national interests.

In terms of illegal immigrants dying in the desert due to the wall, you’re applying too much “cause and effect”.

One of the more successful campaigns to deter people from crossing the border was an awareness Campaign launched by a previous administration (I can’t remember if it was under Bush or Obama) that explained the dangers of traveling with Coyotes and through Cartel territory. It went on further to explain that getting into the US didn’t guarantee citizenship. Ever since that campaign took off, we’ve seen a decrease in people trying to jump the border (barring unusual situations like the huge march of refugees from below the Mexican border).

You can’t blame the wall for things that occur long before the persons get to it.

As for their self-determination:

If we’re talking about international law, then perhaps it’s pertinent to give a working understanding of what that means:

“The UN Charter clarifies two meanings of the term self-determination. First, a state is said to have the right of self-determination in the sense of having the right to choose freely its political, economic, social, and cultural systems. Second, the right to self-determination is defined as the right of a people to constitute itself in a state or otherwise freely determine the form of its association with an existing state.” (Britannica)

^ “The People” isn’t doesn’t account for a singular individual, it’s a collective. In this instance, the citizens of the US collectively elect officials that they want to run the country. If the collective chooses a candidate that is pro-wall then the collective has self-determined they want a wall. Thus, a Jedi can absolutely be pro-borders and pro-self-determination.

If we’re talking about an individual level of self-determination, they can freely choose to support or not support what they want- it doesn’t mean that they can impose those things upon others whom equally have individual self-determination.

Whether we want to admit it or not, humans are historically a territorial species. We got together in tribes and do not like it when people encroach upon our territory without permission. Wars got started over it. To make a sweeping statement that someone is stripping away a person’s self-determination because a country denies them entry is ignoring the equal right of that country’s people to their own self-determination.

You can argue that there is a distinct lack of compassion written into immigration laws, but the self-determination argument falls flat on its face.

CaesarEJW wrote: Americans who are racist almost always try to disguise their bigotry as practicality, because it is something to be ashamed of.
Racism has a clear negative connotation, most people will not admit to being racist, even if they really are (unless they are some kind of edgelord).

I'm from the Midwest, and I live in the Midwest (from Kansas, currently reside in Missouri), so I have seen this all firsthand.
The Midwest in America is one of the most conservative parts of the country.
(for some reason, racial prejudice seems to coincide with political conservatism).

And yes, while your perspective on this subject may be limited, this subject can still be broken down to its base principles.

Which would be that of an action motivated by bigotry, disguised as practicality, and used purely to gain political momentum.
At the core of this whole issue is the simple fact that Trump's supporters like the Wall idea, so he will use that to get more votes.
That is all this comes down to really.

Love this post! It's so true. Sadly, not only do they not want to admit it (I live in the midwest too) but they keep pretending that nobody can tell it's going on and so whenever someone gets exposed they act shocked in public but then go back to making racist jokes when attention dies down. Sadly, children are absorbing it and making assumptions based on race only because of things they hear their parents saying.

EVEN THOUGH you are right and this is true... the reason the disguise works is because there is a real fear of America not being "white" anymore, BECAUSE they actually DO see an advantage to being white that they don't want to lose, and because they understand that many of them aren't educated and will have to compete for blue collar jobs. How much depends on how much legal status is given but the reality is that a lot of white people sub contract to Mexicans to do construction jobs rather than hiring other, more expensive, whites. Even though there is an advantage its definitely a golden ticket and people will choose profits first. So in a sense they are afraid of capitalism forcing them into socio-economic extinction.

These fears do need to be addressed as they give oxygen to the racist agenda. We even have people among us who support the agenda, attempting to distance themselves from the racist motives of those who also (clearly) support the same agenda for racist reasons. So for those who support Trump but honestly can say they're not at all racist, I'd like to reason how we can advocate for your interests in a way that doesn't hurt minority groups who are just fighting for survival.

I have to say...

I have met a number of Caucasians recently, who I believe have been truly honest about the subject of race and ethnicity. I've met a number of white women who have brown and black children and I do feel like society is on the right track. We're not there yet, but there's hope.

When you look into the innocent eyes of a child, especially one who is in your circle of family or close friends... its hard to argue against the race of that child. And racists are now having to look into the eyes of black and brown grand children. And once they get over themselves they realize that they can fall in love with that baby.

And with that love comes care and concern. Suddenly, the obstacles in that baby's way need to either be removed or we need to help that baby get over them. Eventually, every family will have diversity in it and every family will have beautiful big-eyed wee baby yoda like children of different colors and at that moment we'll all look back and think how stupid it was that we ever thought people with different skin colors were any different from us.

I will say something that most far left don't want anyone to hear . I'm a Trump supporter , and I'm Hispanic . My grandmother came here legally . I have no problem with anyone's race . To me I don't see someone's race but how they are as a person . I don't buy into stereotypes , nor do I support the spreading of them . So if you are here legally then we are all good . If I break a law I go to jail , so why not someone who is breaking the law by being here illegally ? They broke the law and they should due the time . Now the children that's a different problem , we need to make suitable foster homes for them . While the parents are in "jail" they need to apply for asylum or temporary/ full citizenship . If they are denied then they need to go home or find other countries , plenty of safe countries in South and middle America . I wonder why they would want to come here ? To exploit our country and tax dollars so they can get things for free . As well as get higher paying jobs . It doesn't matter what race you are a bum is a bum . If they genuinely need protecting then they would come here legally . So then they are either doing something illegal and other illegal activities or don't want anyone to know they are here because they are afraid . If they are doing illegal activities then it needs to stop . The government can be secretive so the latter won't be much of a problem just come legally . This is not a plot to only keep white people in power but to protect our citizens . We don't need or want people doing illegal things here that's why we have laws . Laws to keep us safe , dum tho they may be but still there . I don't want to see people suffer regardless of anything but if they came here legally it wouldn't happen . We need something to put in there brains to tell them to come here legally and to have them legally responsible for there actions if it's a wall so be it . If no one knows who you are then you can get away with anything . REGARDLESS of who the president is they are our president and we need to respect that . I Will go on and continue to respect and support any one who becomes president .

That being said political views a side and what I stated . The people is at fault for injuring or worse case killing themselves not the government , not the wall , and certainly not you or I . So is the wall antithetical to the Jedi doctrine no , nor is anyone who supports/ hates it .

I like this quote .
" In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Why single out the far left? It's people of common decency that don't support the orange hued Caligula.

I like this quote.

“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but because out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.

That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives anymore.

They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?” ― A.R. Moxon

This one too.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

ZealotX wrote:

CaesarEJW wrote: Americans who are racist almost always try to disguise their bigotry as practicality, because it is something to be ashamed of.
Racism has a clear negative connotation, most people will not admit to being racist, even if they really are (unless they are some kind of edgelord).

I'm from the Midwest, and I live in the Midwest (from Kansas, currently reside in Missouri), so I have seen this all firsthand.
The Midwest in America is one of the most conservative parts of the country.
(for some reason, racial prejudice seems to coincide with political conservatism).

And yes, while your perspective on this subject may be limited, this subject can still be broken down to its base principles.

Which would be that of an action motivated by bigotry, disguised as practicality, and used purely to gain political momentum.
At the core of this whole issue is the simple fact that Trump's supporters like the Wall idea, so he will use that to get more votes.
That is all this comes down to really.

Love this post! It's so true. Sadly, not only do they not want to admit it (I live in the midwest too) but they keep pretending that nobody can tell it's going on and so whenever someone gets exposed they act shocked in public but then go back to making racist jokes when attention dies down. Sadly, children are absorbing it and making assumptions based on race only because of things they hear their parents saying.

EVEN THOUGH you are right and this is true... the reason the disguise works is because there is a real fear of America not being "white" anymore, BECAUSE they actually DO see an advantage to being white that they don't want to lose, and because they understand that many of them aren't educated and will have to compete for blue collar jobs. How much depends on how much legal status is given but the reality is that a lot of white people sub contract to Mexicans to do construction jobs rather than hiring other, more expensive, whites. Even though there is an advantage its definitely a golden ticket and people will choose profits first. So in a sense they are afraid of capitalism forcing them into socio-economic extinction.

These fears do need to be addressed as they give oxygen to the racist agenda. We even have people among us who support the agenda, attempting to distance themselves from the racist motives of those who also (clearly) support the same agenda for racist reasons. So for those who support Trump but honestly can say they're not at all racist, I'd like to reason how we can advocate for your interests in a way that doesn't hurt minority groups who are just fighting for survival.

Thank you, I am glad I am not the only one who sees this.

Br. John wrote: Why single out the far left? It's people of common decency that don't support the orange hued Caligula.

I like this quote.

“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but because out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.

That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives anymore.

They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?” ― A.R. Moxon

This one too.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

WORD BR. JOHN!
I agree completely.
And admittedly, I did not tell the truth in a prior post. I am a liberal/leftist/social democrat and proud of it gosh darnit.

Malicious wrote: I will say something that most far left don't want anyone to hear . I'm a Trump supporter , and I'm Hispanic . My grandmother came here legally . I have no problem with anyone's race . To me I don't see someone's race but how they are as a person . I don't buy into stereotypes , nor do I support the spreading of them . So if you are here legally then we are all good .

@Malicious

Why do you say this is something the far left doesn't want to hear? I mostly agree with you. I just think you're jumping to a lot of conclusions about legal and illegal immigration which causes you to think of the bulk of people crossing the border as criminals who should be jailed.

But I'm glad you shared these views because I feel like we can get somewhere. It's definitely the best to be honest and up front about what you feel and how you see things. I tend to think higher of people who do so, never less.

1: if you break the law you go to jail.
for the first improper entry the penalty can be a fine. That's because its a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence you can get for this as a first offense is 6 months.

reasons its stupid: Conservatives should agree with me. If you think illegal immigrants are coming here for free stuff and to live off your tax dollars then, by all means, put them all in jail.

jail... where they will eat for free. be housed for free. all thanks to your tax dollars. And if they have kids... its tax dollars that pays for CPS and any services that would temporarily place children in homes while their parent is in jail. And what will you do after the sentence is over? Deport? Then you will never recoup the tax dollars spent on incarceration and it would be less expensive to simply deport them in the first place.

So criminalizing and zero tolerance policies only guarantee that your tax dollars will be absolutely wasted. And if you think jail is a deterrent... I am here to tell you that it's not. For many Americans... their odds of survival and comfort are better in jail than outside of it. Many people get arrested on purpose; especially those who are homeless and unemployed. Jail provides free food, clothing (technically speaking), and shelter.

Private prisons charge the government about $150 per day, per prisoner. I've purchased 2 hotel rooms in the past two weeks; both with pools. I spent between $90-120 for a day. If an illegal immigrant found a job and a place to live, they would automatically be paying into the system. Sales tax, rent, etc. as well as supporting local grocery stores, and other retail stores. The MOST expensive option for the tax payer is imprisonment. The least expensive option is fining them and letting them work and contribute to the economy and pay taxes. Their legal status would simply disadvantage them from obtaining the same jobs that legal citizens could get and they wouldn't have other rights as well. Depending on the state they may not even be able to get a license.

(cont'd)

2: "to exploit our country and tax dollars to get things for free"

The only way to do that is if you lock them up. If you're thinking about public education its paid by taxes. Google: where does sales tax go?

The Short Answer: Sales tax is a tax on retail purchases. It is used to pay for state and local budget items like schools, roads and fire departments.

So in reality, illegal immigrants DO pay for "free" education as long as they are buying things in the US which is unavoidable. So whatever source of information is telling you they're getting free education is either lying to you or is misinformed.

3: "It doesn't matter what race you are a bum is a bum"

according to...
https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/immigration-can-undocumented-immigrants-get-federal-public-benefits/936951998/

undocumented immigrants aren't eligible for ANY federal public befits (CHIP, TANF, SNAP, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, public housing)

so I ask you... if they aren't working as soon as they get here then how the hell are they able to survive without any income? I had a friend who was/is homeless and the only thing he was able to get was SSI because he had a disability. Full US citizen. How are citizens homeless and starving if there's all this free federal money floating around?

Legal immigrants (like Melania) are eligible for most federal benefit programs. There's a classification called LPR (lawful permanent resident) that are authorized to live and work in the US. Only after 5 years can they apply for the federal benefit programs I mentioned earlier.

So despite what you've heard... it is NOT easy to get free money. So how could a bum from another country survive in the US? They must be some kind of genius.

4: If they genuinely need protecting then they would come here legally.

My father came here legally from Jamaica. Did you know that it can take more than 20 years to legally immigrate to the US?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/what-the-waiting-list-for-legal-residency-actually-looks-like/540408/

There are multiple lines for different visas. Melania Trump petitioned for permanent residency under the EB-1 program which is known as the "Einstein visa" which was designed for people with extraordinary abilities.

In my opinion, that visa should have been revoked as a fraud and she should have been deported. But the system isn't fair. She is only one example of someone cutting in line to get in. This means other people may have to wait longer even though they actually do have "extraordinary abilities" because someone took their spot. Why do you think Melania did this? Obviously, because the normal route was too slow and/or difficult. So the idea that all these regular people from South of the border need to just "play fair and get in line"... well... but its not fair at all. And while they're waiting for years, terrified of massive unchecked crime and gangs that threaten their children's lives, someone else is possibly jumping ahead of them just because its easier to get more modeling gigs.

Someone who needs protecting, in general, typically needs protection NOW (sorry for yelling but it was for emphasis) not in 1-20 years from now. And if the immigration system seems to favor people like Melania Trump and allow them to cheat then why should a person from South America wait patiently? Why?

5: "We don't need or want people doing illegal things here that's why we have laws "

We do have laws. So if Melania (For example) fraudulently claims "extraordinary ability" in order to receive the Einstein Visa, we should over look that. Fraud should be illegal, right? Unless your argument is that it isn't fraud if you don't get caught doing it? Or let's say you're a rich TV celebrity and you cheat to fraudulently get your kids into a better college? Which of these should we over look in our efforts to enforce the laws and keep ourselves safe? In all the stats I've seen these immigrants Trump says are rapists and murderers actually commit less crime than native citizens. So shouldn't they need protection from us? Shouldn't they be afraid of us? I shudder at the thought that there is some great number of models that apply for the Einstein visa or that there is some great number of actresses that cheat to get their children into college. So why then apply such a broad brush to people who "cheat" their way into the US? Why is their crime so horrible when no one cares about Melania and the fact that she "chain migrated" her parents here too? This goes to the notion that there is a double standard. No one's scared of Canadians crossing the border even though they are more likely to be here on visa overstays. Also illegal. But no one's talking about keeping them out, potentially with violence. There's no deployment of troops. No tear gas for the maple crowd. So can you see why this "zero tolerance" on the SOUTHERN border seems targeted based on ethnic origin?

And amazingly, so many people casually talk about enforcing all these laws. However, do they really care about the laws? Or do they care only because they are afraid of "rapists and murderers" because of political propaganda and demonization that often spread from far right sources (including alt right, KKK, facists, and other white supremacist camps) into the more mainstream moderate republican base by using these fears.

In other words, person 1 hates Jews. Person 1 tells jokes to person 2 that center around Jews as being greedy business people. Person 2 doesn't hate jews but still fears their economic success and political power. Person 2 votes for person 3 who may or may not share the views of person 1 but is still elected on a platform that supports person 1's agenda. Person 2 doesn't know they have participated in person 1's racist agenda. They were simply reacting out of fear.

Fear truly is a path to the dark side.

The end result becomes something worse than the misdemeanor crime being committed by border crossers, especially those whose only offense is not entering at pre-defined ports of entry. Fear is used to exaggerate the problem and therefore the reaction. Clone army, first order, all these contrived over reactions to a threat that was generated by people who sought power and used the fears of others to obtain it. In our real world case we saw this result in the "kids in cages" debacle where they were so quick to separate children from their parents that they basically kidnapped them because they didn't bother to keep info on which kids belonged to which adult. That should have been a crime in itself, but it shows that their focus was not on law and "order". There is no order in losing people's kids. And if this happened to the children of republicans by democrats there would be such outrage that many heads(resignations) would roll. But since they're not seen as "our kids"... America cannot muster enough empathy to see it for what it is.

my solution:

Simply document them and give them a special work visa which forces them to pay, out of their checks, just like child support, for every month they are here and an amount for each dependent they bring until they have obtained legal citizenship. This penalty would allow employers to legally hire them at below minimum wage without penalty if they can't find Americans for the job and would mitigate any burden on tax payers you think is fair.

There a very well established lines in the sands of the Arizona desert. There are the migrants and their sympathizers, allies and accomplices. There is the border patrol and those who support them.

No More Deaths is a humanitarian aid organization which maintains a year-round humanitarian presence in the deserts of southwestern Arizona. Working in the remote corridors into which migration has been pushed, where people are walking 30 to 80 miles, volunteers hike the trails and leave water, food, socks, blankets, and other supplies and emergency first-aid treatment with the intention of ending the death and suffering in the Mexico–US borderlands.

When I read number *14 of the 16 teachings of the doctrine and then I look at this:



It is very easy for me to imagine which of these two responses to suffering and desperation are Jedi and which are not.

( *14. Jedi are guardians of peace. We believe in helping all those that are in need, in whatever form, to the best of our ability. We recognize that sometimes providing help requires courage in the face of adversity but understand that conflict is resolved through peace, understanding and harmony. )
U.S. Border Patrol Systematically Destroyed Water Supplies Left for Migrants in Desert, Report Says

Actually I think mostly all of your topics are truthful . Our immigration policies are messed up and we need to fix them also your solution sounds amazing ! Maybe you should be the one trying to get into office . Yes some of my arguments we're in a way wrong and I will admit this . I'm not saying keep all of them out but to let them come legally . But the sad truth is we cannot protect our own citizens let alone everyone wanting to come here . Eventually we as a nation will get overly populated especially if we let everyone in . I actually non-technically speaking was a sort of interpreter for a nice Hispanic man that didn't speak a lick of English , the cashier didn't speak Spanish and the man was wanting to buy a bag of chips and a pop . So I helped him out , very nice guy , he was even wanting to pay me for helping him but I kindly refused his money . But the quote from Teddy stands . If ya want to be an American , come here legally , you have to know English , and you can only have one sole loyalty and that is to the United States no other country . I'm not saying you can't keep your heritage but I'm brace the United States . If you come here and keep repeating this country sucks and my old one was better than by all means please go back ( trust me they won't , also the last sentence was about a certain up incoming Dem ) . I get your points and I value your feedback but some of the things I said (besides family stuff ) are true . We do need people fixing these problems , and making the path to citizenship easier . But we do need to have a type of population control ( not in a bad way ) to make sure we won't get over populated quickly . I'm not saying open boarders tho because that's ridiculous . And we do need to spend money on fixing up the south American countries . Thanks for the feedback , I truly mean it .

KerouacsGhost wrote: There a very well established lines in the sands of the Arizona desert. There are the migrants and their sympathizers, allies and accomplices. There is the border patrol and those who support them.

No More Deaths is a humanitarian aid organization which maintains a year-round humanitarian presence in the deserts of southwestern Arizona. Working in the remote corridors into which migration has been pushed, where people are walking 30 to 80 miles, volunteers hike the trails and leave water, food, socks, blankets, and other supplies and emergency first-aid treatment with the intention of ending the death and suffering in the Mexico–US borderlands.

When I read number *14 of the 16 teachings of the doctrine and then I look at this:

It is very easy for me to imagine which of these two responses to suffering and desperation are Jedi and which are not.

( *14. Jedi are guardians of peace. We believe in helping all those that are in need, in whatever form, to the best of our ability. We recognize that sometimes providing help requires courage in the face of adversity but understand that conflict is resolved through peace, understanding and harmony. )
U.S. Border Patrol Systematically Destroyed Water Supplies Left for Migrants in Desert, Report Says

Bruh this happened besides that one time before Trump got elected if it's 2012-2015 your beef is with Obama and his agency at the time . If there was a wall from sea to sea then that will make it clear they ain't supposed to be here illegally . Ya I hate "those" boarder patrol agents the same as you and think they should be fired if they aren't already . The wall is meant to be a sign saying either come here legally or don't come .

You know, I have started to realize, that when it comes to issues like this, there are actually more things people agree on than disagree. However, the powers that be find it more profitable to keep us divided and bickering amongst one another.
Just a thought.