Debating the existence of toxic masculinity/femininity

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24 Jan 2019 19:36 #332998 by Arisaig

Kobos wrote:

JamesSand wrote:

but given all the armchair experts getting around, they throw in concepts they think might have something to do with something so at least they can have the appearance of knowing anything about anything)


Is there a toxic intellectualism?


Yes there 100% is, work in an education system somewhere and you will see it lol. "well my history degree is better than your history degree cause of x,y,z." My response, "We both got degrees in history because we were too short sighted to study business."

Now I love history and love being knowledgeable about it (it's a passion) as I teach it. But having had success in the corporate world before jumping to teaching it's kind of a wake up that my degree is just paper unless I am teaching. lol

Much Love, Respect and Peace


Lol, basically that line from Dr. Strange.

"okay... answer me this Bachelor's Degree..."

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24 Jan 2019 19:37 #332999 by Arisaig

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Wanna go beyond that line? move to a culture that'll accept it. There are such still lingering in this world. [/color]


Just because one pushes boundaries in a society does not automatically disqualify them from that society. How do you think those boundaries changed if not by challenge? Just because I don't agree with a social norm and violate that boundary does not mean I should leave to find one that does accept it.


I agree. But don't expect society to sit by and let you push them around forever without consequence.

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24 Jan 2019 19:42 #333000 by JamesSand

Yes there 100% is, work in an education system somewhere and you will see it lol. "well my history degree is better than your history degree cause of x,y,z." My response, "We both got degrees in history because we were too short sighted to study business."


Oh, I have no doubt there is some serious problems generated in students by the institutions they go to, which is probably an issue that bears investigating. I was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to study engineering. There's not exactly "different schools of thought" on physics, chemistry, or manufacturing, at the practical level (there are different processes, sure, but they all work on the same rules) so I don't have to worry too much about elitism. Plus I didn't end up working in the field, so it's of no consequence to me anyway.







I'm pondering on a more...low brow scale I suppose, that in today's "information age" you are expected to have a view (and express that view) on damned near everything, even if you're a plumber, and all you really care about is making sure poop doesn't come out of pipes, and that there is a beer in the fridge when you are done. Someone might ask you about equal rights or toxic masculinity or patriotism....

how do you answer? "Is this about poop or beer? because otherwise, not my wheelhouse" ?
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24 Jan 2019 19:45 #333001 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Wanna go beyond that line? move to a culture that'll accept it. There are such still lingering in this world. [/color]


Just because one pushes boundaries in a society does not automatically disqualify them from that society. How do you think those boundaries changed if not by challenge? Just because I don't agree with a social norm and violate that boundary does not mean I should leave to find one that does accept it.


I agree. But don't expect society to sit by and let you push them around forever without consequence.


Extreme ownership of self responsibility is being able to accept the consequences for ones actions.

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24 Jan 2019 19:48 #333002 by JamesSand
Spoiler - Nothing to do with the OP or thread subject, just troll-feed.


Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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24 Jan 2019 19:49 #333003 by Kobos

JamesSand wrote:

Yes there 100% is, work in an education system somewhere and you will see it lol. "well my history degree is better than your history degree cause of x,y,z." My response, "We both got degrees in history because we were too short sighted to study business."


Oh, I have no doubt there is some serious problems generated in students by the institutions they go to, which is probably an issue that bears investigating. I was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to study engineering. There's not exactly "different schools of thought" on physics, chemistry, or manufacturing, at the practical level (there are different processes, sure, but they all work on the same rules) so I don't have to worry too much about elitism. Plus I didn't end up working in the field, so it's of no consequence to me anyway.

I'm pondering on a more...low brow scale I suppose, that in today's "information age" you are expected to have a view (and express that view) on damned near everything, even if you're a plumber, and all you really care about is making sure poop doesn't come out of pipes, and that there is a beer in the fridge when you are done. Someone might ask you about equal rights or toxic masculinity or patriotism....

how do you answer? "Is this about poop or beer? because otherwise, not my wheelhouse" ?


Yep, just yep on that one, that's all I got.

Get some fame, people change, wanna live they life high
Same song can't go wrong, if I play the nice guy
(Claim the fame must have changed, now that we became strong)
I remain still the same (why Tu'?), cause it's the same song
_Digital Underground
TM-JLSpinner Training, Brother-Nakis
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24 Jan 2019 19:50 #333004 by Arisaig

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Wanna go beyond that line? move to a culture that'll accept it. There are such still lingering in this world. [/color]


Just because one pushes boundaries in a society does not automatically disqualify them from that society. How do you think those boundaries changed if not by challenge? Just because I don't agree with a social norm and violate that boundary does not mean I should leave to find one that does accept it.


I agree. But don't expect society to sit by and let you push them around forever without consequence.


Extreme ownership of self responsibility is being able to accept the consequences for ones actions.


Glad we can agree on that. :)

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24 Jan 2019 19:50 #333005 by Uzima Moto
I think to fully answer this question. We first have to identify what exactly is Masculinity/ Femininity..

Imo, both are just aspects of The Force. Just as the Sun and Moon manifests different aspects of light. So to does The Force manifest actively and passively. The active, organizing, expansive, actualizing, and energizing aspects of The Force are labeled masculine. Whereas the connecting, cradling, solidifying, and encompassing aspects are labelled feminine.. but as The Dark Side is the mirroring, extreme opposite, these aspects have their extremes..

Organizing can become despotic and connecting can become binding. Solidification can be stagnation if it doesn't allow room to grow. Just as expansion can become conquest when ambitious isn't tempered by consideration of others..

If anything, when these aspects become twisted by the Dark. They become toxic and destructive. Which is the purpose of Darkness..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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24 Jan 2019 19:59 #333007 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Manu wrote: I still stand by the assertion that some brands of behaviors typically associated to men can be very destructive, and those are the ones that should be addressed by the term toxic masculinity.


Typically is not globally and exclusively. So the term should not be applied that way either. Toxic behaviour is a better term. Toxic sexual aggression or just toxic aggression both work too. But don't assign it a gender that is not always the problem.

Manu wrote: A friend I had was very “equal rights” until he got married and found himself always annoyed, because deep down he expected his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning in the house, despite both of them working full time jobs.


This is not a natural behaviour (trait) but a learned behaviour (from nurture). His mother probably had a gender role much like he expected his wife to hold. The problem is you cant apply this universally either. Did he break out of this stereotype and learn to be more equal in these duties? If he did not I would say he displayed sexism not toxic masculinity.

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24 Jan 2019 20:17 #333008 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Uzima Moto wrote: I think to fully answer this question. We first have to identify what exactly is Masculinity/ Femininity..

Imo, both are just aspects of The Force. Just as the Sun and Moon manifests different aspects of light. So to does The Force manifest actively and passively. The active, organizing, expansive, actualizing, and energizing aspects of The Force are labeled masculine. Whereas the connecting, cradling, solidifying, and encompassing aspects are labelled feminine.. but as The Dark Side is the mirroring, extreme opposite, these aspects have their extremes..

Organizing can become despotic and connecting can become binding. Solidification can be stagnation if it doesn't allow room to grow. Just as expansion can become conquest when ambitious isn't tempered by consideration of others..

If anything, when these aspects become twisted by the Dark. They become toxic and destructive. Which is the purpose of Darkness..



I happen to be the best of friends with the dark and I cant tell you from first hand experience that masculinity originates in the dark. Feminism is from the light. The light is introspective, the dark is extrospective. We as humans contain both and use both equally to interact with reality. So your assessment is flawed.

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