Debating the existence of toxic masculinity/femininity

More
5 years 2 months ago #332988 by JamesSand

but given all the armchair experts getting around, they throw in concepts they think might have something to do with something so at least they can have the appearance of knowing anything about anything)


There might be more to this. Is there a toxic intellectualism? All these people, who on any given day would be more than happy to eat nachos and play video games, are more or less shamed into being idiots unless they pipe up and have a view on everything.
Toxic Expression?

I have not had a coffee yet, and today is set to be an award winning 48 degrees, so I feel like crap, but I feel I am onto something, an incredibly damaging culture where everyone things they need to have an opinion on everything, and to be socially aware and woke (or to fight against that....) in any case, to have some kind of damned cause and a whole bunch of "informed" opinions, otherwise they are not important and don't count....

if you're not on facebook you don't exist...

toxic social....something..


There's a bit in this, I just know it....
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Rosalyn J, Kobos

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 2 months ago #332989 by

For all I know, what I call stoicism, others could call male repression of feelings and an inability to express emotions.
but is it a problem? Who gets to decide what the "healthy" level of feels/expression is, and what is too much or too little?


With all things, moderation. Repressing yourself leads to unhealthy habits. Overindulging is equally unhealthy.

As to whom determines that balance? Really, society. What was 'acceptable' of a man a thousand years ago in, say, Norse culture would be drastically different from what was okay for a man a hundred years ago, as opposed to what is okay for a man in western modern culture. Its what people are willing to put up with, finding that line, and remaining moderately behind it.

Wanna go beyond that line? move to a culture that'll accept it. There are such still lingering in this world.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 2 months ago #332990 by JamesSand

As to whom determines that balance? Really, society. What was 'acceptable' of a man a thousand years ago in, say, Norse culture would be drastically different from what was okay for a man a hundred years ago, as opposed to what is okay for a man in western modern culture. Its what people are willing to put up with, finding that line, and remaining moderately behind it.


What?! are you saying cultural norms CHANGE?! and that people can't necessarily help the culture they were raised in and their experience and expectations?! and that all these websites and newspapers and podcasts constantly ascribing the term "toxic masculinity" to "things they don't like" might as well be slut shaming for all the use and validity in their position?!

noooooo! tell me it ain't so!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Avalon, Kobos, , Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 2 months ago #332991 by Manu

JamesSand wrote: What?! are you saying cultural norms CHANGE?! and that people can't necessarily help the culture they were raised in and their experience and expectations?! and that all these websites and newspapers and podcasts constantly ascribing the term "toxic masculinity" to "things they don't like" might as well be slut shaming for all the use and validity in their position?!

noooooo! tell me it ain't so!


Ha! I love you man, your posts make it worth coming back here. :)

As with all things, labels can be used as something behind of for whatever agenda is there.

I wouldn't mind doing away with the whole "toxic masculinity label", as long as we don't simultaneously try to ignore all the nasty "symptoms" ascribed to it.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosalyn J, Kobos,

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 2 months ago #332992 by Manu

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: He continues to violate me by sexually bullying me and I have no desire to make friends with that. So that is not an option either. Your third option to have you removed is also one I'm not interested in because of reasons I mentioned before. So that leaves us with you asking me for options. Me,... the true victim in all this. Ok, I want him punished and possibly permanently removed from this temple. I want his actions publicly condemned and carry severe consequences in the future. If this sort of action is "utterly wrong" (your words not mine) why is his behaviour tolerated?? Talk about a rape culture, this is it in spades!!!


So, let me try to make sense of this.

You continuously engage in antagonizing others and justify it as "pushing boundaries", "challenging comfort zones" and the "spirit of good debate", constantly complaining that no one has any right to censure that (stick it to the man!), THEN you turn around and complain to the man when someone uses your same debate style on you?

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
The following user(s) said Thank You: Avalon, Kobos,

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 2 months ago #332993 by

JamesSand wrote:

As to whom determines that balance? Really, society. What was 'acceptable' of a man a thousand years ago in, say, Norse culture would be drastically different from what was okay for a man a hundred years ago, as opposed to what is okay for a man in western modern culture. Its what people are willing to put up with, finding that line, and remaining moderately behind it.


What?! are you saying cultural norms CHANGE?! and that people can't necessarily help the culture they were raised in and their experience and expectations?! and that all these websites and newspapers and podcasts constantly ascribing the term "toxic masculinity" to "things they don't like" might as well be slut shaming for all the use and validity in their position?!

noooooo! tell me it ain't so!


LOL. I agree with Manu, thank god you're back. XD

But yeah, they do change. But it's not, I would argue, something we simply 'don't like'. Its what people won't stand for. There are things today that we just won't stand for, an over indulgence of masculine characteristics. Its not so much saying 'hey we don't like you and what you do', but people saying 'hey, buddy... dial it back'.

Perhaps that's just the domestication of the human race and all that. Perhaps it's people trying to narrow the previous divide of sexes. Perhaps both. Tis just my understanding of what toxic masculinity means in our westernised culture, being 'it changes, because we're becoming more knowledgeable of a new ideology of what equality is.'

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 2 months ago #332994 by

Manu wrote:
You continuously engage in antagonizing others and justify it as "pushing boundaries", "challenging comfort zones" and the "spirit of good debate", constantly complaining that no one has any right to censure that (stick it to the man!), THEN you turn around and complain to the man when someone uses your same debate style on you?


Unless you have been privy to all the interactions both public and private I suggest you keep out of this. You know not of what you speak. There is a difference between challenge and harassment.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 2 months ago #332995 by Kobos

JamesSand wrote:

but given all the armchair experts getting around, they throw in concepts they think might have something to do with something so at least they can have the appearance of knowing anything about anything)


Is there a toxic intellectualism?


Yes there 100% is, work in an education system somewhere and you will see it lol. "well my history degree is better than your history degree cause of x,y,z." My response, "We both got degrees in history because we were too short sighted to study business."

Now I love history and love being knowledgeable about it (it's a passion) as I teach it. But having had success in the corporate world before jumping to teaching it's kind of a wake up that my degree is just paper unless I am teaching. lol

Much Love, Respect and Peace

What has to come ? Will my heart grow numb ?
How will I save the world ? By using my mind like a gun
Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
MF DOOM Books of War

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Knight of the Conclave
The following user(s) said Thank You: Avalon,

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 2 months ago #332996 by Manu

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Manu wrote:
You continuously engage in antagonizing others and justify it as "pushing boundaries", "challenging comfort zones" and the "spirit of good debate", constantly complaining that no one has any right to censure that (stick it to the man!), THEN you turn around and complain to the man when someone uses your same debate style on you?


Unless you have been privy to all the interactions both public and private I suggest you keep out of this. You know not of what you speak. There is a difference between challenge and harassment.


Fair enough, Kyrin.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos,

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #332997 by

Arisaig wrote: Wanna go beyond that line? move to a culture that'll accept it. There are such still lingering in this world. [/color]


Just because one pushes boundaries in a society does not automatically disqualify them from that society. How do you think those boundaries changed if not by challenge? Just because I don't agree with a social norm and violate that boundary does not mean I should leave to find one that does accept it.
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by .

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: ZerokevlarVerheilenChaotishRabeRiniTavi