Debating the existence of toxic masculinity/femininity

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22 Jan 2019 18:34 - 22 Jan 2019 18:40 #332839 by OB1Shinobi
Hopefully i got it all but i will amend if necessary

Connor L. wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: In the first place toxic masculinity is not real


This is such a prevalent issue in our culture that I can't breeze by this without feeling the responsibility to ask you why you would make this kind of assertion. I have three questions: What is toxic masculinity to you? What is toxic masculinity to society? And, why do you think they don't exist?



Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: These sorts of claims are no different than assertions that male privilege exists. There is just no evidence to support them. If you believe in toxic masculinity do you also believe toxic femininity?


Arisaig wrote: For anything, there is a toxic version of it. Toxic Christianity, Toxic World of Warcraft Players, Toxic Car Drivers.

Its not a problem to be part of that group. The problem comes in taking the worst aspects of it and ramping it up to 12.

So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.



Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Sorry but you are wrong. To emphasize group identity over individuality in a disparaging way is invalid because it causes cognitive bias.


Arisaig wrote:
Never said anything about group identity, and in fact am pointing out individual decision. Read the entire post.


Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:
So can a female be guilty of toxic masculinity?



Go!

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Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 18:40 by OB1Shinobi.
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22 Jan 2019 19:05 #332846 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.[/color]


Sorry but you are wrong. To emphasize group identity over individuality in a disparaging way is invalid because it causes cognitive bias.


Never said anything about group identity, and in fact am pointing out individual decision. Read the entire post.


So can a female be guilty of toxic masculinity?

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22 Jan 2019 19:26 #332848 by Rosalyn J
Yes. Its possible for anyone to hold and spread unrealistic ideals about indivifuals who hold certain labels

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22 Jan 2019 19:54 #332849 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Rosalyn J wrote: Yes. Its possible for anyone to hold and spread unrealistic ideals about indivifuals who hold certain labels


If that is the case then the term toxic masculinity is an incorrect label because it unfairly defines the actions of a group dynamic, that being males, over other groups. It needs to be called something else and defined as individual action not assigned a group.

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22 Jan 2019 20:13 #332850 by JamesSand
"being a !*&^" already has a label, and specific !&*^ acts are managed by particular laws and enforcement agencies in various parts of the world.


The twittersphere and tumblords and commercial "journalism" which isn't much better should probably all just go chill out and stop trying to be the World Police.

If you have a problem with the definition of particular deeds or the management of law enforcement in your area, take it up with your own local government agencies.
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22 Jan 2019 20:22 #332851 by OB1Shinobi

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: Yes. Its possible for anyone to hold and spread unrealistic ideals about indivifuals who hold certain labels


If that is the case then the term toxic masculinity is an incorrect label because it unfairly defines the actions of a group dynamic, that being males, over other groups. It needs to be called something else and defined as individual action not assigned a group.



I tend to agree with this but would be willing to concede the point if the feminine equivalent were openly acknowledged. What about females who bully each other with gossip and rumors or all these women teachers having sex with their underage students? Is that toxicity specific to female nature or are they merely examples of the ways in which females act out the “toxicity” of human nature?

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22 Jan 2019 20:27 #332853 by JamesSand
I'm all about language evolution, but I'm still fighting against this emergence of using "toxic" to just blanket describe more or less "anything I disagree with or that is inconvenient to me"

"Urgh, Steve never washes his coffee mug in the tea room. He's such a toxic influence"



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22 Jan 2019 20:46 - 22 Jan 2019 20:46 #332854 by OB1Shinobi

JamesSand wrote: I'm all about language evolution, but I'm still fighting against this emergence of using "toxic" to just blanket describe more or less "anything I disagree with or that is inconvenient to me"

"Urgh, Steve never washes his coffee mug in the tea room. He's such a toxic influence"




I agree 100% and also tried for awhile lol but i think its too late. As Pandora learned, nothing ever goes back into the box.

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Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 20:46 by OB1Shinobi.
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22 Jan 2019 21:05 #332855 by OB1Shinobi
Heres an article about toxic femininity that i hated to read but which i think is pretty important for understanding the nature of “the movement”. Some of the “SJW” types hanging around will probably love it.


Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


medium.com/@CleoJ/yes-there-is-a-toxic-femininity-9f9afaef0587

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22 Jan 2019 21:06 #332856 by Kyrin Wyldstar

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: Yes. Its possible for anyone to hold and spread unrealistic ideals about indivifuals who hold certain labels


If that is the case then the term toxic masculinity is an incorrect label because it unfairly defines the actions of a group dynamic, that being males, over other groups. It needs to be called something else and defined as individual action not assigned a group.



I tend to agree with this but would be willing to concede the point if the feminine equivalent were openly acknowledged. What about females who bully each other with gossip and rumors or all these women teachers having sex with their underage students? Is that toxicity specific to female nature or are they merely examples of the ways in which females act out the “toxicity” of human nature?


I dont want to acknowledge the female equivalent either though. You are right girls can viscous to one another and to others but I will not blanket label a behaviour across the entire gender. That's what makes these terms so dangerous. It turns seemingly individual bad behaviour and poor decision into a crusade to hunt the witches and burn them!!

SJW flying the flag of righteous justice against a a group dynamic enemy they perceive have dissed them in some way is nothing more than protective dissonance. It gives them the excuse to blame others for bad behaviour while engaging in that same bad behaviour. Bad things happen to good people all the time and people do bad things but instead of being the victim and blaming an entire gender for your hurts they need to take some self responsibility place blame where it deserves to be, on the individual.

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