What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

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10 Jul 2017 19:26 #290183 by TheDude

Wescli Wardest wrote: "Protocol for removal of Officers other than by Council vote"

Has been mentioned. And removing an Officer is one thing; but, it leaves a void that will have to be filled until a replacement can be selected. Has anyone given thought to how we might do that?

In Council, we have been looking at the use of applications and a selection process. Normally we reserve Officer Position for those that have achieved the rank of Knight or higher. Is a process like that something that would be wanted by the membership?


This isn't a comment on any council members, but in general practice, is it better for a position to be open for a suitable person to eventually fill, or for it to be filled by someone unsuitable for that specific position (whether that means available time to commit or individual ability) to fill it? Is the idea of an open position such a bad thing?
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10 Jul 2017 19:30 #290184 by user15542
Totally agree.

Benchwarmers sap morale, raise expectations yet don't contribute more than an empty seat. At least an empty seat can be filled, when the right person comes along.

Given the number of active members on the site, I don't see a situation where we couldn't recruit someone valuable pretty much immediately anyway.
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10 Jul 2017 19:41 #290188 by Edan
There's no reason why apprentices couldn't fill vacant seats, after all, I did.

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10 Jul 2017 19:52 #290190 by Wescli Wardest
How do you know if someone is going to be a bench warmer or is capable of filling the position until you have given them the chance?

Monastic Order of Knights
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10 Jul 2017 20:02 - 10 Jul 2017 20:03 #290191 by user15542
I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2017 20:03 by user15542.
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10 Jul 2017 20:11 #290192 by Wescli Wardest

tzb wrote: I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.



Right, and I asked a few posts ago if filling those seats was something we had considered in addition to removing people from them.

Removing a person that has responsibilities needs to be filled as soon as possible because the removal of said person cause a strain on those that have to pick up the slack.

But we have no real idea how people will behave until they are put in the position and given the chance. I. for one, have never put someone somewhere because they were by buddy or whatever. I only put those in place that have shown they can do the job. But that doesn’t mean they are always going to do the job to the standard or liking of everyone else. We just don’t know till they are in that position. And then you have to “ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.”

And that again takes time where someone else has to pick up the slack for that position not being done.

Some jobs, it isn’t as big a deal to the daily running of things. Some, it can be a complete pain in the butt.

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10 Jul 2017 20:34 #290194 by Adder

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.


Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

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10 Jul 2017 20:39 - 10 Jul 2017 20:43 #290195 by Zenchi

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.


Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...


I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:

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Last edit: 10 Jul 2017 20:43 by Zenchi.

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10 Jul 2017 20:42 #290196 by user15542

Wescli Wardest wrote:

tzb wrote: I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.



Right, and I asked a few posts ago if filling those seats was something we had considered in addition to removing people from them.

Removing a person that has responsibilities needs to be filled as soon as possible because the removal of said person cause a strain on those that have to pick up the slack.

But we have no real idea how people will behave until they are put in the position and given the chance. I. for one, have never put someone somewhere because they were by buddy or whatever. I only put those in place that have shown they can do the job. But that doesn’t mean they are always going to do the job to the standard or liking of everyone else. We just don’t know till they are in that position. And then you have to “ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.”

And that again takes time where someone else has to pick up the slack for that position not being done.

Some jobs, it isn’t as big a deal to the daily running of things. Some, it can be a complete pain in the butt.


OK... but the issue we're describing is people not doing much of anything. So, like you say, some jobs it's not a big deal to lose a person... in fact it represents an opportunity to gain another person who will take on some of the heavy lifting. We seem to live with the idea some seats don't do much. That puts more strain on those who DO. All anyone is suggesting here is, if someone's not performing, shift them out and take on someone who is asked to do... well, something.

It takes time, yes. But so far as anyone outside of the Council is concerned, bar one or two comments in this thread, it's not happening at all. So little consideration is given to how things seem from the outside, when all that is asked is "trust we're doing it"... how about seeing this as a two-way thing, where if you show people things happen, they'll trust things to get done. This is why people ask for transparency, this is why people want to know what's going on. Because beyond the day to day, which is vitally important, not much seems to be moving forward. If it is, great! Let's share that!
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10 Jul 2017 21:01 #290198 by Adder

Zenchi wrote:

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.


Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...


I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:


Objection, relevance, LOL.... now you've got me worried, are you suggesting that was a request to Council for approval to link that book?

It read like a personal message, asking me to "download the file and read through it, and then offer up your feedback either privately or publicly in the thread" you said it 'was not a requirement' for me to do what you were asking.... so I had a look and don't have time to make a contribution right now... unless something I've said in a forum post was suitable which I could clean up. It is too broad a topic for me to canvass, I prefer specifics.

I didn't think you needed Council approval to post new content in the library, and the message doesn't seem to be asking for it. Don't go messing with my head, I take this stuff serious man :P

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