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About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
- OB1Shinobi
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14 Jul 2016 14:41 - 14 Jul 2016 14:50 #248132
by OB1Shinobi
yes and no
there are a lot of things that should happen to "solve" the issue
obviously, police need media coverage to be fair to the trth of events and not just to getting attention
and we need more programs that allow and encourage citizens to be able to volunteer to be police ourselves for a duration of time, and/or to accompany police from time to time so we can see first hand what the demands of the job are
police should be part of the communities they patrol
imo there should be an officer whose only weapon is his or her body cam and radio, and these should be the first (and only) officers most people see, most of the time
and all of them should have cams at al times
cams should be like miranda rights, if the footage is compromised, so is the arrest
but these are all just ideas to change the undesired outcome (inappropriate killing by police) and not the cause
if we identify the "cause" of the problem as simply "us vs them" then there is no solution.
i have no idea what is the ratio of "average citizen who isnt trying to hurt anybody" to "genuine bad guy who IS trying to hurt somebody" but the police DO have to work together to deal with people who ARE dangerous and violent and unstable
and even dealing with average citizens is tough because lets be real, its never good as a citizen to be talking to the police
bad things happen to people who interact with the police and no one wants to have to accept the lousy thing thats about to happen
so even people who are otherwise decent can be hostile, although its usually only a mental "youre a fucking jerk" kind of hostile, not really anything that intends physical harm
but when someone is treating you like a jerk its only natural to be defensive and feel "us vs them" because in a way it IS "us vs them"
not to mention that the "us vs them" is a basic component of the human psyche; im sure it can be traced to our evolution and its not going anywhere in and of itself
so if the external events and the unacceptable outcomes can be reduced, i think thats as good of a solution as anyone can hope for
??
we can attempt to to redefine who the "us" is and who the "them" is/are
but the definitions have to hold up under fire, and coming up with definitions (more complex than "we are the police and you are not") that can really do so is not very easy to do
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Miss_Leah wrote:
Adder wrote: You'd think mandatory body camera's and vehicle camera's would reduce or even eliminate the inappropriate/illegal conduct by Police. But they might have to have all actions reviewed by an independent third party in ongoing terms, to vet for misconduct. Then it should be safe to assert that its not the Police's fault for the proportion of any particular group in shootings, if the conduct is proper, and it might point to a higher criminal activity of those particular groups more then anything else.
But is the issue truly being solved if police are only conducting themselves properly because they're being watched?
yes and no
there are a lot of things that should happen to "solve" the issue
obviously, police need media coverage to be fair to the trth of events and not just to getting attention
and we need more programs that allow and encourage citizens to be able to volunteer to be police ourselves for a duration of time, and/or to accompany police from time to time so we can see first hand what the demands of the job are
police should be part of the communities they patrol
imo there should be an officer whose only weapon is his or her body cam and radio, and these should be the first (and only) officers most people see, most of the time
and all of them should have cams at al times
cams should be like miranda rights, if the footage is compromised, so is the arrest
but these are all just ideas to change the undesired outcome (inappropriate killing by police) and not the cause
if we identify the "cause" of the problem as simply "us vs them" then there is no solution.
i have no idea what is the ratio of "average citizen who isnt trying to hurt anybody" to "genuine bad guy who IS trying to hurt somebody" but the police DO have to work together to deal with people who ARE dangerous and violent and unstable
and even dealing with average citizens is tough because lets be real, its never good as a citizen to be talking to the police
bad things happen to people who interact with the police and no one wants to have to accept the lousy thing thats about to happen
so even people who are otherwise decent can be hostile, although its usually only a mental "youre a fucking jerk" kind of hostile, not really anything that intends physical harm
but when someone is treating you like a jerk its only natural to be defensive and feel "us vs them" because in a way it IS "us vs them"
not to mention that the "us vs them" is a basic component of the human psyche; im sure it can be traced to our evolution and its not going anywhere in and of itself
so if the external events and the unacceptable outcomes can be reduced, i think thats as good of a solution as anyone can hope for
??
we can attempt to to redefine who the "us" is and who the "them" is/are
but the definitions have to hold up under fire, and coming up with definitions (more complex than "we are the police and you are not") that can really do so is not very easy to do
People are complicated.
Last edit: 14 Jul 2016 14:50 by OB1Shinobi.
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- Leah Starspectre
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14 Jul 2016 14:56 - 14 Jul 2016 14:56 #248135
by Leah Starspectre
Replied by Leah Starspectre on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Yes, that's exactly what I mean, cams may help undesirable outcomes, but they don't solve the underlying issue. It's breaking off a weed by the stem without pulling out the roots.
In order to improve the "us vs them" mentality, we need to take a hard look at those who lead us (both directly, as in politics, and indirectly, as in other areas: media, education, corporations, etc) - they are supposed to act as representatives of the population at large, so if the leaders of a country are racist, misogynistic, bigots, is it any wonder why so many people are following suit?
In order to improve the "us vs them" mentality, we need to take a hard look at those who lead us (both directly, as in politics, and indirectly, as in other areas: media, education, corporations, etc) - they are supposed to act as representatives of the population at large, so if the leaders of a country are racist, misogynistic, bigots, is it any wonder why so many people are following suit?
Last edit: 14 Jul 2016 14:56 by Leah Starspectre.
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14 Jul 2016 22:38 - 14 Jul 2016 22:39 #248184
by Adder
I'd imagine even a family dynamic can be enough to entrench bigotry and I don't think government can reach there, but it could happen anywhere or entirely in ones head even, so maybe better screening for employment along with the better monitoring. We cannot 'fix' everyone, the system just needs to be as robust as possible.... tangible things which can be done to make improvements might not solve the problem entirely but progress is a good thing (if it can happen). I just don't think its one root which can be pulled.
Replied by Adder on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Miss_Leah wrote: Yes, that's exactly what I mean, cams may help undesirable outcomes, but they don't solve the underlying issue. It's breaking off a weed by the stem without pulling out the roots.
In order to improve the "us vs them" mentality, we need to take a hard look at those who lead us (both directly, as in politics, and indirectly, as in other areas: media, education, corporations, etc) - they are supposed to act as representatives of the population at large, so if the leaders of a country are racist, misogynistic, bigots, is it any wonder why so many people are following suit?
I'd imagine even a family dynamic can be enough to entrench bigotry and I don't think government can reach there, but it could happen anywhere or entirely in ones head even, so maybe better screening for employment along with the better monitoring. We cannot 'fix' everyone, the system just needs to be as robust as possible.... tangible things which can be done to make improvements might not solve the problem entirely but progress is a good thing (if it can happen). I just don't think its one root which can be pulled.
Last edit: 14 Jul 2016 22:39 by Adder.
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15 Jul 2016 02:20 - 15 Jul 2016 02:38 #248191
by OB1Shinobi
what im getting from your post is. "we need to reevaluate and reorganize our entire civilization" which is all well and good and i agree
but even after we do this there will still be the reality that cops deal with in an adversarial context
us vs them is inescapable when there is really an US and there is really a THEM
and there is an us and them in police work
even the average citizen who isnt out to get anyone will see police as antagonists simply because the only time police deal with you is in situations where they are likely to arrest or ticket you
so its inherently adversarial
we cant change that really, but we can (maybe) structure the organization and protocol so as to emphasize that the role of public servant is just as important as or maybe even more important than the role of enforcer and disciplinarian
i think thats a more workable solution than reordering the whole culture
which i think we do need to reorder our culture, but thats so vast that it is difficult imo to make a case that its the solution for any specific problem
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Miss_Leah wrote: Yes, that's exactly what I mean, cams may help undesirable outcomes, but they don't solve the underlying issue. It's breaking off a weed by the stem without pulling out the roots.
In order to improve the "us vs them" mentality, we need to take a hard look at those who lead us (both directly, as in politics, and indirectly, as in other areas: media, education, corporations, etc) - they are supposed to act as representatives of the population at large, so if the leaders of a country are racist, misogynistic, bigots, is it any wonder why so many people are following suit?
what im getting from your post is. "we need to reevaluate and reorganize our entire civilization" which is all well and good and i agree
but even after we do this there will still be the reality that cops deal with in an adversarial context
us vs them is inescapable when there is really an US and there is really a THEM
and there is an us and them in police work
even the average citizen who isnt out to get anyone will see police as antagonists simply because the only time police deal with you is in situations where they are likely to arrest or ticket you
so its inherently adversarial
we cant change that really, but we can (maybe) structure the organization and protocol so as to emphasize that the role of public servant is just as important as or maybe even more important than the role of enforcer and disciplinarian
i think thats a more workable solution than reordering the whole culture
which i think we do need to reorder our culture, but thats so vast that it is difficult imo to make a case that its the solution for any specific problem
People are complicated.
Last edit: 15 Jul 2016 02:38 by OB1Shinobi.
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25 Jul 2016 13:09 - 25 Jul 2016 13:12 #249228
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Replied by on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
There is only one solution and that is for everyone to learn to love one another. There is too much hate in existance.
There are alot that will watch from the outsides and say that it's not a race thing.
There are also those that are inside of the situation , meaning this is their lives or a deep look was taken on the matter. These people will say it is a race thing.
Personally, I have alot of police officers in my family and I feel as though it is a race thing. The wrong people have been given guns and badges and the country as a whole will support the death until it happens to someone they see as more important.
In a personal situation, at the age of 5 , i remember my mother being pulled out of her car and forced to lay on the ground with police pointing guns at her. Officers then searched the vehicle and let her go after seeing me and my brother in the back seat watching. We never found out why this happened.
I also have a few friends (one who is the lapd academy) who were rather attacked by officers but never reported because
( who do you call? them? ). I've personally been stopped and searched by officers a few times , however , I am a straight edge , dorky looking guy so all they would find on me would be a cellphone ,wallet and a nintendo ds. They are extremely rude when you ask them why you are being searched but i know the reason is due to race. Of course I do not resist because I do not want give a them a valid reason.
The scary part about this is if the officer decides to shoot, unless someone has full footage, reports will say that i was an armed gang member (even without tattoos ) attacked an officer and the world will believe it. I'd only have family and the anime club to vouch for me. :laugh:
The point of this is; The violence ends when HATE does. We cannot ask for peace nor demand it until we sacrifice our ill feelings for that of love & compassion for one another.
(also: i've heard there are areas in the UK where police don't carry guns... can anyone tell me what that is like? )
There are alot that will watch from the outsides and say that it's not a race thing.
There are also those that are inside of the situation , meaning this is their lives or a deep look was taken on the matter. These people will say it is a race thing.
Personally, I have alot of police officers in my family and I feel as though it is a race thing. The wrong people have been given guns and badges and the country as a whole will support the death until it happens to someone they see as more important.
In a personal situation, at the age of 5 , i remember my mother being pulled out of her car and forced to lay on the ground with police pointing guns at her. Officers then searched the vehicle and let her go after seeing me and my brother in the back seat watching. We never found out why this happened.
I also have a few friends (one who is the lapd academy) who were rather attacked by officers but never reported because
( who do you call? them? ). I've personally been stopped and searched by officers a few times , however , I am a straight edge , dorky looking guy so all they would find on me would be a cellphone ,wallet and a nintendo ds. They are extremely rude when you ask them why you are being searched but i know the reason is due to race. Of course I do not resist because I do not want give a them a valid reason.
The scary part about this is if the officer decides to shoot, unless someone has full footage, reports will say that i was an armed gang member (even without tattoos ) attacked an officer and the world will believe it. I'd only have family and the anime club to vouch for me. :laugh:
The point of this is; The violence ends when HATE does. We cannot ask for peace nor demand it until we sacrifice our ill feelings for that of love & compassion for one another.
(also: i've heard there are areas in the UK where police don't carry guns... can anyone tell me what that is like? )
Last edit: 25 Jul 2016 13:12 by .
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25 Jul 2016 15:20 #249234
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Replied by on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
the police in the UK have only carried guns since the paris attacks
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25 Jul 2016 15:30 - 25 Jul 2016 15:31 #249238
by Edan
Not true... I've seen police officers with guns for a long time.. way before Paris... Usually in London in train stations.
More likely they've been carrying them since the 7/7 bombings.
"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Replied by Edan on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Silas Mercury wrote: the police in the UK have only carried guns since the paris attacks
Not true... I've seen police officers with guns for a long time.. way before Paris... Usually in London in train stations.
More likely they've been carrying them since the 7/7 bombings.
"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Last edit: 25 Jul 2016 15:31 by Edan.
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25 Jul 2016 15:48 #249242
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
i think our police force would do better if less of them carried guns
People are complicated.
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25 Jul 2016 15:51 #249246
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No, I think it's good that they carry guns. Better if they carry guns that fire blanks. Rule by fear of force, not by force itself, after all.
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25 Jul 2016 20:25 - 25 Jul 2016 20:28 #249299
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I would like to see something like an amplified, more active neighborhood watch type structure where neighborhoods, parts of a community in a way police themselves. By getting to know each other, who the trouble makers are, who is in what situation (of course it's hard because a lot of people don't want everyone to know their business, and also some people get off on getting into other people's business), just generally looking out and being situationally aware as a community can really put the pressure off police and allow them to focus on more important and serious issues.
Various shops, businesses, recreational places and attractions need more security. Here in Russia they have security everywhere, metal detectors at the bigger malls and at least simple plain clothed 'bouncer' style people in stores and walking around. Where I'm at the police ride 3-4 officers in car, all carrying fully automatic AKs and submachine guns, there are also foot patrols and they setup on different roads stopping random people to check them out. Police here aren't shooting everyone. But can't really compare Russia to the USA.
Because of our bill of rights and constitution, I'm glad police don't have this level of power and authority to just stop everyoe to ask for papers. The weigh stations throughout and between each republic here are checkpoints where they can flag you down, make you walk through a building with detectors, input your passport into their system, search your car. With the way things are going though in the US, this will become possible if the citizens themselves don't start taking an active role in the safety and wellbeing of their own communities, let alone themselves. Right now metaphorically it's like if you live in an area with torandos, you build a house with a basement but today people don't even have them they just die and wonder why.
This is for me the primary, modern function of the militia today but using this term scares people because of the clowns out there on both sides. I think it's time for there to be a medium between individuals of the community and the police. A lot of small problems can be dealt with 'in house' before becoming the bigger problems we experience. This organization I wish to see cannot come from the government it has to be started by people in their communities. Something like this is the last option before we go into a fully blown, martial law style police state kissing our bill of rights and constitution goodbye.
Talking about guns is a strawman agrument so insiders and grown children can immediately wash themselves of any responsibility it would take to actually engage the larger issues at play like our monetary/foreign policies for example.
Various shops, businesses, recreational places and attractions need more security. Here in Russia they have security everywhere, metal detectors at the bigger malls and at least simple plain clothed 'bouncer' style people in stores and walking around. Where I'm at the police ride 3-4 officers in car, all carrying fully automatic AKs and submachine guns, there are also foot patrols and they setup on different roads stopping random people to check them out. Police here aren't shooting everyone. But can't really compare Russia to the USA.
Because of our bill of rights and constitution, I'm glad police don't have this level of power and authority to just stop everyoe to ask for papers. The weigh stations throughout and between each republic here are checkpoints where they can flag you down, make you walk through a building with detectors, input your passport into their system, search your car. With the way things are going though in the US, this will become possible if the citizens themselves don't start taking an active role in the safety and wellbeing of their own communities, let alone themselves. Right now metaphorically it's like if you live in an area with torandos, you build a house with a basement but today people don't even have them they just die and wonder why.
This is for me the primary, modern function of the militia today but using this term scares people because of the clowns out there on both sides. I think it's time for there to be a medium between individuals of the community and the police. A lot of small problems can be dealt with 'in house' before becoming the bigger problems we experience. This organization I wish to see cannot come from the government it has to be started by people in their communities. Something like this is the last option before we go into a fully blown, martial law style police state kissing our bill of rights and constitution goodbye.
Talking about guns is a strawman agrument so insiders and grown children can immediately wash themselves of any responsibility it would take to actually engage the larger issues at play like our monetary/foreign policies for example.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2016 20:28 by .
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25 Jul 2016 20:35 #249301
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Replied by on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
I really like the idea of a more active neighborhood watch type of thing.
I know that in my apartment complex we have had two series of break ins in the four years I've lived there. Both sets were only two or three break ins and the two sets were over a year apart (so five or six break ins total divided into two groupings). They both stopped as soon as signs went up warning the residents to be on the look out. Criminals don't want to have to work hard, and when there are an average of twelve people living in each building all now alert to the possibility of crime that gets harder for them.
Greater community involvement is, in my opinion, truly the best way to help curb crime.
I know that in my apartment complex we have had two series of break ins in the four years I've lived there. Both sets were only two or three break ins and the two sets were over a year apart (so five or six break ins total divided into two groupings). They both stopped as soon as signs went up warning the residents to be on the look out. Criminals don't want to have to work hard, and when there are an average of twelve people living in each building all now alert to the possibility of crime that gets harder for them.
Greater community involvement is, in my opinion, truly the best way to help curb crime.
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25 Jul 2016 20:45 #249303
by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Surveillance technology has come a long way up, and prices down so that is one way to tackle it. The benefits are increased chances of catching any offender through supply of evidence to try to prevent crime, and early detection of crime... not going to stop gun crime though. Might just need to harden up our facilities and vehicles to make them less vulnerable to small arms fire or forced entry. Release the drones with pepper spray, call Police, and go into lockdown!!!!!!!! (not in that order)
:lol:
:lol:
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11 Aug 2016 17:45 #251855
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
heres a fun video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uuo_CiiPk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uuo_CiiPk8
People are complicated.
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11 Aug 2016 18:31 #251860
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Replied by on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.
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11 Aug 2016 18:48 - 11 Aug 2016 19:18 #251862
by OB1Shinobi
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/01/20/federal-jury-awards-180000-to-motorcyclist-kicked-by-cop-at-gunpoint/
"Federal Jury Awards $180,000 to Motorcyclist Kicked by Cop at Gunpoint
It took four hours for a federal jury to determine that an Oregon state trooper violated a man’s civil rights by kicking him in the chest after chasing him down in an unmarked patrol car and ramming into the man’s motorcycle, knocking him down and leaving him with a fractured rib and broken clavicle."
the rest in spoiler and its worth reading
Justin Wilkins was awarded $180,000 in what his attorney described as “a message from the community.”
But Oregon state police expressed disappointment, saying officer safety gives cops the right to kick and pull guns on citizens at a moment’s whim because every encounter is a potential “life-or-death” situation.
According to the Register-Guard:
State police, in a statement released Thursday night, said the agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.
Oregon State Police Captain Rob Edwards got a pass from the jury about pulling his gun Wilkins, determining it did not violate his civil rights, even though there was no indication that Edwards posed a danger to him.
Edwards’ dash cam video shows that he was probably angered that Wilkins had passed him and continued riding, even though the cop was apparently trying to pull him over with his emergency lights, which are embedded in the Camaro’s grill.
Wilkins had come to a complete stop at a traffic light, which shows he was not purposely eluding Edwards, he just didn’t notice him through his small rear view mirror. He also said his helmet kept him from hearing the sirens.
The video shows that it was not until the cop rammed him with the patrol car, knocking him down, that Wilkins first took notice of him.
When Wilkins stood back up, the cop ordered him to get down, which he was about to do, but Edwards kicked him anyway.
But Edwards had an excuse for all of that as well.
Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg.
Edwards also said he accidentally “bumped” the back end of Wilkens’ motorcycle as a result of possible “brake fade” — a term used to describe the loss of braking power because of overheating. But Regan reminded jurors in a closing argument that a brake expert testified at trial that brake fade rarely occurs in modern brake systems.
He also did not report the use-of-force incident and claims he did not know the dash cam was recording.
The incident took place August 2, 2012 when Edwards was a lieutenant. He has since been promoted to captain.
So that’s their message to the community.
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Lightstrider wrote: Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/01/20/federal-jury-awards-180000-to-motorcyclist-kicked-by-cop-at-gunpoint/
"Federal Jury Awards $180,000 to Motorcyclist Kicked by Cop at Gunpoint
It took four hours for a federal jury to determine that an Oregon state trooper violated a man’s civil rights by kicking him in the chest after chasing him down in an unmarked patrol car and ramming into the man’s motorcycle, knocking him down and leaving him with a fractured rib and broken clavicle."
the rest in spoiler and its worth reading
Warning: Spoiler!
Justin Wilkins was awarded $180,000 in what his attorney described as “a message from the community.”
But Oregon state police expressed disappointment, saying officer safety gives cops the right to kick and pull guns on citizens at a moment’s whim because every encounter is a potential “life-or-death” situation.
According to the Register-Guard:
State police, in a statement released Thursday night, said the agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.
Oregon State Police Captain Rob Edwards got a pass from the jury about pulling his gun Wilkins, determining it did not violate his civil rights, even though there was no indication that Edwards posed a danger to him.
Edwards’ dash cam video shows that he was probably angered that Wilkins had passed him and continued riding, even though the cop was apparently trying to pull him over with his emergency lights, which are embedded in the Camaro’s grill.
Wilkins had come to a complete stop at a traffic light, which shows he was not purposely eluding Edwards, he just didn’t notice him through his small rear view mirror. He also said his helmet kept him from hearing the sirens.
The video shows that it was not until the cop rammed him with the patrol car, knocking him down, that Wilkins first took notice of him.
When Wilkins stood back up, the cop ordered him to get down, which he was about to do, but Edwards kicked him anyway.
But Edwards had an excuse for all of that as well.
Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg.
Edwards also said he accidentally “bumped” the back end of Wilkens’ motorcycle as a result of possible “brake fade” — a term used to describe the loss of braking power because of overheating. But Regan reminded jurors in a closing argument that a brake expert testified at trial that brake fade rarely occurs in modern brake systems.
He also did not report the use-of-force incident and claims he did not know the dash cam was recording.
The incident took place August 2, 2012 when Edwards was a lieutenant. He has since been promoted to captain.
So that’s their message to the community.
People are complicated.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2016 19:18 by OB1Shinobi.
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11 Aug 2016 19:09 - 11 Aug 2016 19:21 #251865
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
you guys (and girls) can all be "pro cop" if you want
i am "pro-good-cop" and "anti-bad-cop" and thats what we should all be, imo
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/06/26/suicide-poised-take-entire-police-department/
California Police Underage Sex Scandal Involves 28 Officers, 5 Departments
"How she met Officer Brendan O’Brien in the first place is disturbing in and of it itself. Guap says she was working the streets as a prostitute. She says she was underage at the time, which would legally make her a victim of child sex trafficking. A pimp was chasing her down a street one day in Oakland when she saw O’Brien. “He saved me when I was 17,” Guap told CNN in a phone conversation.
“Instead of taking me to jail, we just kind of started something there, you know.”
of course you can say "well she was a hooker, so what?"
does it matter, YOU TELL ME: why or why not?
The California teen at the center of a multi-agency underage sex scandal is finally speaking out about the officer who took her from a pimp and turned her into a badge bunny for 28 cops across five different police departments.
The fallout has caused two officer suicides.
Fourteen Oakland cops have resigned already.
Oakland PD lost three Chiefs in a nine day span
“I just want everyone to know that I didn’t do this on purpose. I didn’t want to ruin these officers lives,” Celeste Guap told CNN, speaking out about the sex scandal involving her.
Guap was a victim of child sex trafficking.
i am "pro-good-cop" and "anti-bad-cop" and thats what we should all be, imo
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/06/26/suicide-poised-take-entire-police-department/
California Police Underage Sex Scandal Involves 28 Officers, 5 Departments
"How she met Officer Brendan O’Brien in the first place is disturbing in and of it itself. Guap says she was working the streets as a prostitute. She says she was underage at the time, which would legally make her a victim of child sex trafficking. A pimp was chasing her down a street one day in Oakland when she saw O’Brien. “He saved me when I was 17,” Guap told CNN in a phone conversation.
“Instead of taking me to jail, we just kind of started something there, you know.”
of course you can say "well she was a hooker, so what?"
does it matter, YOU TELL ME: why or why not?
Warning: Spoiler!
The California teen at the center of a multi-agency underage sex scandal is finally speaking out about the officer who took her from a pimp and turned her into a badge bunny for 28 cops across five different police departments.
The fallout has caused two officer suicides.
Fourteen Oakland cops have resigned already.
Oakland PD lost three Chiefs in a nine day span
“I just want everyone to know that I didn’t do this on purpose. I didn’t want to ruin these officers lives,” Celeste Guap told CNN, speaking out about the sex scandal involving her.
Guap was a victim of child sex trafficking.
People are complicated.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2016 19:21 by OB1Shinobi.
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11 Aug 2016 20:27 #251879
by OB1Shinobi
from another article
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-motorcyclist-video-20160125-story.html
"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof.
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
OB1Shinobi wrote:
Lightstrider wrote: Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/01/20/federal-jury-awards-180000-to-motorcyclist-kicked-by-cop-at-gunpoint/
"Federal Jury Awards $180,000 to Motorcyclist Kicked by Cop at Gunpoint
It took four hours for a federal jury to determine that an Oregon state trooper violated a man’s civil rights by kicking him in the chest after chasing him down in an unmarked patrol car and ramming into the man’s motorcycle, knocking him down and leaving him with a fractured rib and broken clavicle."
the rest in spoiler and its worth reading
Warning: Spoiler!
Justin Wilkins was awarded $180,000 in what his attorney described as “a message from the community.”
But Oregon state police expressed disappointment, saying officer safety gives cops the right to kick and pull guns on citizens at a moment’s whim because every encounter is a potential “life-or-death” situation.
According to the Register-Guard:
State police, in a statement released Thursday night, said the agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.
Oregon State Police Captain Rob Edwards got a pass from the jury about pulling his gun Wilkins, determining it did not violate his civil rights, even though there was no indication that Edwards posed a danger to him.
Edwards’ dash cam video shows that he was probably angered that Wilkins had passed him and continued riding, even though the cop was apparently trying to pull him over with his emergency lights, which are embedded in the Camaro’s grill.
Wilkins had come to a complete stop at a traffic light, which shows he was not purposely eluding Edwards, he just didn’t notice him through his small rear view mirror. He also said his helmet kept him from hearing the sirens.
The video shows that it was not until the cop rammed him with the patrol car, knocking him down, that Wilkins first took notice of him.
When Wilkins stood back up, the cop ordered him to get down, which he was about to do, but Edwards kicked him anyway.
But Edwards had an excuse for all of that as well.
Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg.
Edwards also said he accidentally “bumped” the back end of Wilkens’ motorcycle as a result of possible “brake fade” — a term used to describe the loss of braking power because of overheating. But Regan reminded jurors in a closing argument that a brake expert testified at trial that brake fade rarely occurs in modern brake systems.
He also did not report the use-of-force incident and claims he did not know the dash cam was recording.
The incident took place August 2, 2012 when Edwards was a lieutenant. He has since been promoted to captain.
So that’s their message to the community.
from another article
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-motorcyclist-video-20160125-story.html
"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof.
People are complicated.
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11 Aug 2016 20:28 - 11 Aug 2016 20:29 #251880
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
from http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-motorcyclist-video-20160125-story.html
"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof."
so yeah, the guy was speeding
does that make this kind of violence ok?
"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof."
so yeah, the guy was speeding
does that make this kind of violence ok?
People are complicated.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2016 20:29 by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Cyan Sarden
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11 Aug 2016 21:13 #251886
by TheDude
Being raised Jewish, my community and the rabbis and even the folks I met when I spent some time in Israel all said "Jews" or even "The Jews", and rarely if ever did I hear the term "Jewish People" being given preference. This is a nonissue for the Jews.
First IP Journal | Second IP Journal | Apprentice Journal | Meditation Journal | Seminary Journal | Degree Jorunal
TM: J.K. Barger
Knighted Apprentices: Nairys | Kevlar | Sophia
Replied by TheDude on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Silas Mercury wrote: Can we stop referring to black people as 'blacks'. it seems kind of derogatory and my girlfriend hates being referred to as 'a black' she prefers black person. Like Jewish people are jewish people not 'jews'
Being raised Jewish, my community and the rabbis and even the folks I met when I spent some time in Israel all said "Jews" or even "The Jews", and rarely if ever did I hear the term "Jewish People" being given preference. This is a nonissue for the Jews.
First IP Journal | Second IP Journal | Apprentice Journal | Meditation Journal | Seminary Journal | Degree Jorunal
TM: J.K. Barger
Knighted Apprentices: Nairys | Kevlar | Sophia
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11 Aug 2016 22:34 #251888
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Replied by on topic About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)
Yeah that's crazy. That officer totally let his anger take over his actions.
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