About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)

OB1Shinobi wrote: guy
"im walking, dont harm me"

cop
"ok"

guy
"keep your word"

cop
"now!"

dead

Ok 99.999999999% of those video clips were brutality. However the first clip of the first video was not. That man came at the officers with a pipe bending jig which is a solid metal bar and that is a lethal threat. You do not play games in that situation. Further you shoot until the threat stops that means the weapon is down and the threat is not trying to move.

yeah, i thought that was an ironic first choice of that video also

but thats appropriate to the discussion in ins own right, as a reminder not to be too quick to judge in either direction

Miss_Leah wrote: I completely agree that police brutality is real.

But it's a symptom, not the root problem.

what IS the problem?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Miss_Leah wrote: I completely agree that police brutality is real.

But it's a symptom, not the root problem.

what IS the problem?

Well, I'm no expert, but my read of it is that the problem has a lot to do with the fact that our society sees certain people as less than human, and so, expendable - ethnic minorities (especially youth), the homeless, Muslims, etc.

And this stems from an "us vs. them" mentality. THEY are lesser, THEY are the enemy, THEY are not deserving of what we have, THEY are not worthy, THEY don't matter...

This is why politics of fear are so dangerous, they propagate this mindset of other humans being less worthy of being here, of having life, even. The police are a branch of our government, and so, a branch of our society. They represent us, they ARE us. And when our society devalues the lives of others who are "other" or "not us" or "them", it's too easy to treat them like second class citizens.

Miss_Leah wrote:

ren wrote: People who "talk smack" about Jediism or "insult" the faith are irrelevant, and protecting the faith does not involve them. Jedi should not feel insulted, and informing the misinformed isn't defense, but sharing.
People who promote ignorance over knowledge, blind obedience over wisdom (to use tenets as an example) are a different story, and opposing that is defending the faith. Nothing to do with defending Jediism's imaginary honour or defending a Jedi's feelings as these are supposed to be imaginary as well.

It's far more useful to encourage harmony, serenity, peace and knowledge in the people who we have contact with on a day-to-day basis than to shout to the world at large "I'm against this!!!!!!" Whatever your "this" may be. It's the difference between opposing something negative and encouraging something positive:

"Where you tend a rose, my lad, a thistle cannot grow"

Positive reinforcement creates SJW zombies. And they in turn cause a backlash, in the form of Trump-like characters. I'd rather tell people they can believe and do what they like with minimal restrictions, than brainwash them into believing what I believe...

Defending the faith is what you do once it's under attack. When you use positive reinforcement (which is a form of brainwashing and an affront to freedom of conscience), you shoot first and others defend against it.

I won't tell the cop who gets shot at 9 out of 10 times by blacks to love blacks. That's insulting to his intelligence and simply aggravating. I'll just prevent him from spreading racism when and if it ever reaches that point.

ren wrote:

Miss_Leah wrote:

ren wrote: People who "talk smack" about Jediism or "insult" the faith are irrelevant, and protecting the faith does not involve them. Jedi should not feel insulted, and informing the misinformed isn't defense, but sharing.
People who promote ignorance over knowledge, blind obedience over wisdom (to use tenets as an example) are a different story, and opposing that is defending the faith. Nothing to do with defending Jediism's imaginary honour or defending a Jedi's feelings as these are supposed to be imaginary as well.

It's far more useful to encourage harmony, serenity, peace and knowledge in the people who we have contact with on a day-to-day basis than to shout to the world at large "I'm against this!!!!!!" Whatever your "this" may be. It's the difference between opposing something negative and encouraging something positive:

"Where you tend a rose, my lad, a thistle cannot grow"

Positive reinforcement creates SJW zombies. And they in turn cause a backlash, in the form of Trump-like characters. I'd rather tell people they can believe and do what they like with minimal restrictions, than brainwash them into believing what I believe...

Defending the faith is what you do once it's under attack. When you use positive reinforcement (which is a form of brainwashing and an affront to freedom of conscience), you shoot first and others defend against it.

I won't tell the cop who gets shot at 9 out of 10 times by blacks to love blacks. That's insulting to his intelligence and simply aggravating. I'll just prevent him from spreading racism when and if it ever reaches that point.

Ok, so rather than criticizing someone else's examination of the problem, why not offer some of your own?

What's your analysis of the root cause of police brutality and how do you think it could be managed?

ren wrote:

Miss_Leah wrote:

ren wrote: People who "talk smack" about Jediism or "insult" the faith are irrelevant, and protecting the faith does not involve them. Jedi should not feel insulted, and informing the misinformed isn't defense, but sharing.
People who promote ignorance over knowledge, blind obedience over wisdom (to use tenets as an example) are a different story, and opposing that is defending the faith. Nothing to do with defending Jediism's imaginary honour or defending a Jedi's feelings as these are supposed to be imaginary as well.

It's far more useful to encourage harmony, serenity, peace and knowledge in the people who we have contact with on a day-to-day basis than to shout to the world at large "I'm against this!!!!!!" Whatever your "this" may be. It's the difference between opposing something negative and encouraging something positive:

"Where you tend a rose, my lad, a thistle cannot grow"

Positive reinforcement creates SJW zombies. And they in turn cause a backlash, in the form of Trump-like characters. I'd rather tell people they can believe and do what they like with minimal restrictions, than brainwash them into believing what I believe...

Defending the faith is what you do once it's under attack. When you use positive reinforcement (which is a form of brainwashing and an affront to freedom of conscience), you shoot first and others defend against it.

I won't tell the cop who gets shot at 9 out of 10 times by blacks to love blacks. That's insulting to his intelligence and simply aggravating. I'll just prevent him from spreading racism when and if it ever reaches that point.

Insulting to his intelligence? Yea failing to tell him to take people on a case by case basis and allowing him to judge based on one factor alone is a good way good for him to end up dead or killing the innocent. When in use of force or potential use of force situations assuming based on anything but the facts of that exact moment is an good way to die or kill the innocent. All people and situations should be judged on a case by case anything else is a lack of intelligence and a good way to foul up big time.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/the-americans-with-charlie-leduff/173584868-story

Here's something to think about. We like to pin it to the whole of the white population. But there's a lot more to consider. As this article suggests, we might need to adjust the numbers to look at economic demographics and see what happens to the race killed by cops ratio. There are other things that are problematic, such as the fact that Killed by Police (cited in a few articles) includes data on off-duty officers shooting people- in one case an accidental discharge while cleaning their weapon. We need to adjust for the fact that "White" in the US Census of 2010 includes the Latino population (I checked, checked and rechecked just to make sure that's an accurate statement), and that the black hispanic population is not included in African American in the US Census (which is a very specific definition), but the Killed by Police lumps all together (it's difficult to discern looking at the raw information, so I don't hold it against them or anything). There are so many issues with the way we look at the numbers, because of our limited access to what the full demographics are- not to mention the difference that occurs over the course of 5-6 years- that any estimates we produce don't necessarily tell the whole story. I'm not saying there aren't issues, but what I will say, is that we can't look at the problem without fully knowing all of the variables involved. Maybe, just maybe, if we stopped screaming "BLACK LIVES MATTER", "ALL LIVES MATTER", "(INSERT GROUP HERE) LIVES MATTER", we could find solutions. There are plenty of white people out there that don't have this "privilege" that everyone keeps talking about, and it hurts them to see others tell them that they have something which they don't have access too.

You'd think mandatory body camera's and vehicle camera's would reduce or even eliminate the inappropriate/illegal conduct by Police. But they might have to have all actions reviewed by an independent third party in ongoing terms, to vet for misconduct. Then it should be safe to assert that its not the Police's fault for the proportion of any particular group in shootings, if the conduct is proper, and it might point to a higher criminal activity of those particular groups more then anything else.

Adder wrote: You'd think mandatory body camera's and vehicle camera's would reduce or even eliminate the inappropriate/illegal conduct by Police. But they might have to have all actions reviewed by an independent third party in ongoing terms, to vet for misconduct. Then it should be safe to assert that its not the Police's fault for the proportion of any particular group in shootings, if the conduct is proper, and it might point to a higher criminal activity of those particular groups more then anything else.

But is the issue truly being solved if police are only conducting themselves properly because they're being watched?