Are Jedi Against Deception

Generally speaking yes, as its dangerous to assume one person is in a position to understand the imperatives at work with the other person to the extent that they think they can make an assessment about what they should or should not know. So on the first pass I think the question comes up with to what right does the person have to ask a question which you might lie to anyway!? So it would depend on the relationship as to why you'd need to answer at all. Perhaps its best to not answer then to lie, but I can certainly imagine some circumstances where lying might be a very good idea just to increase ones chances of surviving!!!

I think of computer networking for some reason... in that users to a group have access permission specific to their duties, and limited or zero access where those duties cease to have relevance. I tend to think it's the same way with information, not in that people have less rights to information but rather that under some circumstances the extents of accuracy becomes overlapped with privacy and security.

It then comes down specifically to intention for me, if someone is being inaccurate with information to the extent it portrays a lie, then IMO it's only kewl to do so if that person has the broad 'right' to protect their privacy/security. This is debatable about breaking the law in someone (parents) elses home without their permission, but could be argued that teenagers are meant to do silly things within the relative safety of the home rather then risk it in the 'wild'.... for example, despite the views of the parent which are probably not changing with the rate of growth of the child, and probably made worse by the teenager's own opinion they have some actual idea about what they are really doing!! I guess in those situations its a bit of a negotiation to get along in a longer relationship of events.

The checkpoint mindtrick in EpIV really seems to be saving the life of those guards, and are obviously operating under the instructions of Sith Lord Vader's orders, so while I agree good and bad are relative terms I still say evil is absolute as a polar representation of compassion... no relativity applies IMO, evil is always evil. So to deceive, lie, boils down to intent for me, and requires understanding and empathy with the person who might be misled to justify and relate that intent to minimize any deception as much as possible. The whole premise of doing no or least harm to act in accordance with the doctrine (if you agree with it).

So, we had to go shopping, and I thought about this some more...

First "I can't speak for "the Jedi", only myself....

I am against deception, however, I would use it if I thought that not using it would create a larger problem down the road...

I value life too... Although I understand the need for somethings to be killed....

I stack my values againt those of anyone, and we will agree in some ways, will not in others...

I am here to help the human race better itself, as I think it should be, but I am open to suggestions as to what exactly i think that is...

If I deceive, I have decided the outcome of that, even if discovered, outweighted the "truth" at that moment...

I have my values, you have yours... I don't care who this is addressed to, lol...

tools - using the correct tool for the correct moment for the accurate reason is the best way to relate to things.

I rest my integrity in the Force. My integrity is guided by the will and design of the Force. When I rest my integrity in human beliefs I can find them be polarized and dualistic.

And we need to remember that we need to acknowledge the consciousness that we are working with. Can the person that you are working with "handle the truth"? Do you tell someone the truth that is ready for it?

I am looking for the most creative and integral way to inspire being to awaken to their ultimate truth!

Whenever I have the question do I tell the truth, I refer to my creed and belief system.

Sometimes in war you do not know who to trust and at nineteen years old, I was in the wild, with bullets flying over my head as a front line solider. So I always refer to my creed which saved my life because it grounded me and adjusted my moral compass, Here is my creed, that was imposed upon me and I was forced to memorise:

I am a British solider I will train hard and think hard and fight hard.
But I will be fair.
I will defeat the enemy through professional cunning and personal skill.
But I will do so with Integrity.
I will overcome adversity and fear.
But I will maintain self discipline.
I will fight for my unit, my regiment, and my allies.
I will do so with pride.
I will protect our countries freedoms.
And I will do so as a loyal subject.
I will lead and mentor all those who serve with me.
And I will do so with respect and commitment.
I will never forget those who have gone before me.
I will always be a British solider.

If you want to know more about me you can refer to my Journal: Arianes Journal

Deception is neutral, it is the intention that distinguishes its moral value. Camouflage is a form of deception but with the intention of protecting assets, whether human or materiel. Deceiving enemies is a valuable (good) intention. Lying is a form of deception, but not every case can be judged by the same standard, even when intentionality is considered.

I'm confused, we're you Army, Air Force? Infantry? Spec Ops?

How does a military guy not understand the meaning behind "loose lips sink ships "?

Hello, Kamizu

Well maybe I didn't explain it properly but Loose Lips Sinks Ships, means different things in Civilian Life as opposed to Military Life.

Such as at higher levels of government it means

• Create deception and maintain deception

Such as at the middle levels of the military hierarchy it means:

• Never Investigate Services

And at the lower ranks it means

• Don't Ask Questions

In civilian life it is more

• 'stranger danger'

Or don't go around befriending people and never divulge your secrets.

Either way its subjective.

I was in the Air force but trained as a topologist however Paratrooper is like Special Forces, you can get into it from any division of armed forces its one step below special forces then I transferred into it.

EDIT: Also I just looked it up and LLSS means to advise servicemen and other citizens to avoid careless talk concerning secure information that might be of use to the enemy. But there are many Idioms in the military either way it means you cant trust people and you should know there is deception for a reason.

EDIT: Actually I am looking stupid, but you should understand that there are poems about this in the military, the bullet points seem stupid, but it is too basically to dumb down the solider so that he doesn't go off and oppose every decision. However I am looking for the poems, so that it can be better understood. Loose Lips Sinks Ships specifically means with the help of Google that, it's better to not talk about ship movements specifically however I wasn't in the navy.

I cant find the poems I wanted but here is one I thought relevant.

I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
NOT EVEN A TREE.

NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.

WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
A SOBER THOUGHT
CAME THROUGH MY MIND.

FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,
ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.

THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
SILENT, ALONE,
CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.

THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
NOT HOW I PICTURED
A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.

And as Socrates said "don't speak too much, you may say something stupid"

If you were Air Force why do you call yourself a soldier? In your journal you said you became a paratrooper right out of school and just said you were drawing maps because you were showing skill.

That edit is the original and continued meaning of "Loose Lips Sink Ships". Only now you hear OpSec instead.

The military tends not to have idioms because that confuses things.

Kamizu wrote: If you were Air Force why do you call yourself a soldier? In your journal you said you became a paratrooper right out of school and just said you were drawing maps because you were showing skill.

That edit is the original and continued meaning of "Loose Lips Sink Ships". Only now you hear OpSec instead.

The military tends not to have idioms because that confuses things.

Point one: Don't know what you mean that I am only hearing OpSec now.

Point Two: The command structure didn't give me any Idioms.

Point Three: Loose Lips Sinks Ships means even if your a commandant in a War Room, you don't speak out loud about your ships movement, even among peers, unless your in an anechoic chamber with your Commanding officer. And a general warning about secured information among other soldiers not to be talked about in unguarded communication.

Point Four: The military culture among officers Idioms are actually vital because it stops you catastrophizing and Procrastinating.

Point five: I Had many interviews joined the Air force at the careers office but then went into paratroopers on the second interview.

...What is OpSec?.. :S Operational Security?

EDIT: My commanding officer made me role model and said "we became like you, its good to have a solider like yourself". Therefore I call myself a solider, It was when I was in my prime, all I had to do, was what I was told and make maps. It was easy I was a natural leader and the training was easy they said I was gifted.

EDIT: According to Google Operations Security, or OPSEC, is the process by which we protect unclassified information that can be used against us. OPSEC challenges us to look at ourselves through the eyes of an adversary (individuals, groups, countries, organizations).

To be honest You never really learn Operational security its more wisdom and yes after the military service it sent me fucking crazy and i was OpSec'ing all the time and I couldn't stop.

Hope your not offended
Love & light

One thing you learn that not all soldiers are created equal...

I was good at basic training but my mother out ranked me and she was a nurse in the Territorial Army. I was a professional solider and no they don't teach OpSec they just keep you in the dark and send you into duty without bullet proof vests.

One person pulled a gun on me and I fucking ran like Hagis. Which are little creatures that run around the highlands of Scotland and its a national sport to find and kill Hagis where men wear skirts called Kilts. And then the scot's throw trees at them and eat them, its a delicacy.

:woohoo:

EDIT: Luckily for me I knew the area like the back of my hand and went into a friends house and started smoking Marlborough cigarettes. Then I went back to base and told them nothing about the incident or that guy would have got arrested for defending his family from an unknown aggressive foreigner.

Then I went back and showed the troops all the little secrets of the land, like little hide outs and I restrained myself to only teach them a single secret route per day. Otherwise they would loose the element of surprise. So that was my Operational Security, withholding information from the soldiers who call themselves brothers in arms. Then I was arrested by the monkeys and asked to betray my colleagues and I ratted out every single one who were in my four man team, who were involved in a botched raid and nearly got beaten up my team. Because it was the 'Good' thing to do. Until one of them said "I would have done the same we destroyed a man's garden because we wanted a den and a man cave"

Then the monkeys withheld that information from the records and it never happened according to them. The man had to finance his own repairs. That happened in Iraq and the village was intimidated by me because I could fly of the handle and pressed a gun to a man's face and said what you gonna do now boy answer me I know you speakin da english.

Then one time I was walking and my team left me they walked in different directions and I was alone and had to find my allies in Iraq and spent the night in someone's house because I broke in (illegal breaking and entering) and left in the morning. When Iraqis dragged me out of bed and interrogated me then the shit hit the fan and I got an axe and broke their apartment up.

Peace x