Caged or Free?

Ok. I'm realizing that somehow I've confused people. Let me try and be a little clearer...

Freedom is a construct that can only exist when somebody says it does. Otherwise, there are just conditions that we "apply" freedom to in order to make a case that they should or should not be free.

For example:

A murderous criminal should NOT be free.

^That above is a statement about nothing. Freedom could mean anything in the abstract. What we really mean to say is:

"A murderous criminal should be put in a jail for a time equivalent to their crime, and all rights as citizens be stripped from them."

This is more an accurate and useful opinion.

As for the bird:

Is it moral to keep the bird caged?

Who cares? The bird cannot express an opinion. If it had one, then I would listen to it. But, the bird has no function but to eat. If I'm feeding the bird, then there's nothing inherently "bad" about it. If I don't feed it, I'm murdering a bird. That's different than keeping it captive, and bars on the "We respect all life".

Is it moral to keep a man caged?

Who cares? The man has an opinion. So, it does matter in a sense. If I listen to the opinion, and I disagree, morality is still not in question. If I keep the man in a cell, then it's because I want him there. That's it.


In closing... morality is stupid. There's nothing good about it except abstract rules that may or may not help somebody grow as a person. I advise you all to stop thinking about morality, and begin thinking about the things right in front of you.

Connor Lidell wrote: Ok. I'm realizing that somehow I've confused people. Let me try and be a little clearer...

Freedom is a construct that can only exist when somebody says it does. Otherwise, there are just conditions that we "apply" freedom to in order to make a case that they should or should not be free.

For example:

A murderous criminal should NOT be free.

^That above is a statement about nothing. Freedom could mean anything in the abstract. What we really mean to say is:

"A murderous criminal should be put in a jail for a time equivalent to their crime, and all rights as citizens be stripped from them."

This is more an accurate and useful opinion.

As for the bird:

Is it moral to keep the bird caged?

Who cares? The bird cannot express an opinion. If it had one, then I would listen to it. But, the bird has no function but to eat. If I'm feeding the bird, then there's nothing inherently "bad" about it. If I don't feed it, I'm murdering a bird. That's different than keeping it captive, and bars on the "We respect all life".

Is it moral to keep a man caged?

Who cares? The man has an opinion. So, it does matter in a sense. If I listen to the opinion, and I disagree, morality is still not in question. If I keep the man in a cell, then it's because I want him there. That's it.


In closing... morality is stupid. There's nothing good about it except abstract rules that may or may not help somebody grow as a person. I advise you all to stop thinking about morality, and begin thinking about the things right in front of you.

Not any clearer at all.....and if I want your advice I ll ask for it

ren wrote:

Ren threw the word rape in the convo to be salacious and to highlight abuse.

Uh, no? I don't think there should be a differenciation between personal violations on the grounds of them being sexual or not. Hence why I used the word rape the way Jestor explained.

I had a feeling of that, once I read the orgin...

And, this is definetly a language issue at times like that... The word was from french, and being french, you used it like it was created for, like the word 'plan' in one of our long ago convos, lol... :laugh:

++++++++
Rickie, I think he meant 'you' as in 'mankind', not 'rickie'....

haha. Yup, Jestor's right.

I mean.. why does morality even come up as a question to you?

Connor Lidell wrote: In closing... morality is stupid. There's nothing good about it except abstract rules that may or may not help somebody grow as a person. I advise you all to stop thinking about morality, and begin thinking about the things right in front of you.

I'm sorry. I'm really not following you. It must be a rock day?

How did we go from freedom to morality anyway?

It must be on my end. hahaha. I'm just really bad at this today.

I'll give it one more go..

Is the caged bird denied freedom?

You can approach that from many sides, yes? Freedom to ____. Explore. Eat what it wants. See the world. Sing its song whenever it wants to. Breathe.

In my opinion, you need to be more specific. The caged bird is denied freedom to make choices beyond its bars it is kept behind.

And, when you specify, you can then talk about the morality of whether or not it is ok to put such restrictions on the bird. But, when you do, who gets to make that decision? Animal rights activists? Buddhists? Humanity?

There isn't a "code" that says how you should treat others. It all comes down to how much compassion you feel for the bird, yes?

Maybe that's a little clearer...

Connor Lidell wrote: It must be on my end. hahaha. I'm just really bad at this today.

I'll give it one more go..

Is the caged bird denied freedom?

You can approach that from many sides, yes? Freedom to ____. Explore. Eat what it wants. See the world. Sing its song whenever it wants to. Breathe.

In my opinion, you need to be more specific. The caged bird is denied freedom to make choices beyond its bars it is kept behind.

And, when you specify, you can then talk about the morality of whether or not it is ok to put such restrictions on the bird. But, when you do, who gets to make that decision? Animal rights activists? Buddhists? Humanity?

There isn't a "code" that says how you should treat others. It all comes down to how much compassion you feel for the bird, yes?

Maybe that's a little clearer...

I grant you freedom from this forum topic.... Fly Connor be free

Jestor wrote:

ren wrote:

Ren threw the word rape in the convo to be salacious and to highlight abuse.

Uh, no? I don't think there should be a differenciation between personal violations on the grounds of them being sexual or not. Hence why I used the word rape the way Jestor explained.

I had a feeling of that, once I read the orgin...

And, this is definetly a language issue at times like that... The word was from french, and being french, you used it like it was created for, like the word 'plan' in one of our long ago convos, lol... :laugh:

++++++++
Rickie, I think he meant 'you' as in 'mankind', not 'rickie'....

Not really to do with being french no, but with other modern uses of the word. In gaming there is a thing called "base raping" for instance, and it has nothing to do with forced sex. It's an extreme violation/humiliation with no escape.

Donkey wrote: I grant you freedom from this forum topic.... Fly Connor be free

I don't appreciate that.

Connor Lidell wrote:

Donkey wrote: I grant you freedom from this forum topic.... Fly Connor be free

I don't appreciate that.

it was an attempt at humor, my apologies