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05 Oct 2019 20:17 - 05 Oct 2019 20:30 #344132 by Carlos.Martinez3

Casshern wrote: This seems to be a roundabout way of saying that Gisteron's opinion doesn't matter. Today many are too quick to tell those that don't agree to be quiet or that they shouldn't be allowed to speak. The point of these types of forums should be the open exchange of ideas. Instead of dismissing their opinions, perhaps you should present your side of the argument with evidence to rebut Gisteron's position and show the efficacy of proposed treatments.
We can have civilized discussions without resorting to dismissing each other's opinions. You may not change their mind, but you will at least be respecting their opinions and their rights to express them.


Been there done that- too many times it’s both sides pointing fingers and nothing ever gets accomplished or agreed. I’ve done that so many times it seems like two sides almost null each other without ever seeing any other side but their own. It’s nature. I know folks who think it’s a sham. Part of the gig, like people who ask me where’s your light saber and robes.
Kind of like when Voldemort and Harry Potter hit Priori Incantatum— a lot of lights and really nothing gets done.

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Last edit: 05 Oct 2019 20:30 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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05 Oct 2019 20:34 #344133 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Certified Reiki Master

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Been there done that- too many times it’s both sides pointing fingers and nothing ever gets accomplished or agreed. I’ve done that so many times it seems like two sides almost null each other without ever seeing any other side but their own. It’s nature. I know folks who think it’s a sham. Part of the gig, like people who ask me where’s your light saber and robes.

Facing disagreements is just part of the game, don't you know. They keep asking me to show the stork, that's just how it goes. There is no changing their minds, nor is there changing mine. Maybe there is a stork, maybe not. Personally, I think there is, but they wouldn't buy it if they saw it anyway, so no point entertaining their query. Been there, done that, you see. Just part of the gig, innit.

Couldn't have put it in more dismissive terms myself. Well done!

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05 Oct 2019 21:22 #344134 by Carlos.Martinez3
I’ve stopped disagreeing with others and arguing and began to give them as often their side and space as they need. ( a great practice for all Jeddist I think)!Sometimes that causes more grief but it’s worth it to me. Sorry if you thought that was dismissive. Wasn’t the intention. We may never see equal but ... I don’t have to to be friends or running buddies along side other Jeddist - to be a Jeddist. I don’t even have to like them. Smiley face Isn’t that kinna neat. Reiki - it’s a very one on one thing for me. Whether others believe or trust or even acknowledge- never changes the one on one experience of practitioner and client - on anything. That’s all - not dismissing just letting otters take their sides. That’s all. Sorry if you thought that’s what it was. Just giving others their side or space.

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06 Oct 2019 03:41 #344140 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Certified Reiki Master
I was neither endorsing nor condemning either view. Merely pointing out that people are free to choose what they wish to believe in and spend their time and money on, no one has the right to choose for them or to force them to choose a certain way...you embrace logic and science, some people choose not to...

As to the man i was referring to, i only knew his first name which was robert, he was a regular customer at the store i worked at, i never asked about the full nature of his condition as it wasn't my business nor my place to ask. The tumor was on his abdomen and was very noticeable when i started there and after a year and a half it was gone... He was very vocal about promoting the holistic treatments and herbalism he was using. This was a man in his 60's that admitted to laughing at people that would push "hippy shit" treatments until he received that news from his doctors, then he became desperate to find any sort of treatment that would work....afterwards he began to truly enjoy every day. He gave money away to anyone in need and would say "i have no family, and i can't take it with me so i might as well enjoy it"....his personality beforehand was very depressed (as you'd expect from someone told they only had a few months to live) afterwards he became annoyingly overjoyous...

Conversely my stepdad put all his trust in modern medicine, his doctors put him on avandia and within a year he died from a massive heart attack, he had never had heart problems, no family history of heart problems...then avandia was pulled because it was proven to cause heart attacks...

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine

J.L.Lawson,Sr Knight, B.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
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Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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06 Oct 2019 09:02 #344141 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Certified Reiki Master

RyuJin wrote: I was neither endorsing nor condemning either view. Merely pointing out that people are free to choose what they wish to believe in and spend their time and money on, no one has the right to choose for them or to force them to choose a certain way...you embrace logic and science, some people choose not to...

Yes, and some people go around promoting their choice to others, or encouraging the undecided to make the objectively bad one, and some people feel like those who choose to speak about it are really out of line. I have said it twice before, but I'll repeat it for your convenience again, it's not about what any one well informed person individually chooses, if they are the only person it affects. Thanks for pointing out that they are free to make that choice, and allow me to point out that nobody here whatsoever was questioning or challenging that freedom. Allow me also to point out that just as everyone is free to make a bad choice so am I free to actually give a damn about my fellow man enough to not "just shut the hell up", and I am also free to call out those "live and let live" "golden middle path" holymen who find it so absolutely unobjectionable to let vulnerable people be exploited.

And no, clearly, you were not "neither endorsing nor condemning either view" either. Your tale was one of "believe as you will, but magic really worked that time" initially. However, now you are expanding it to "oh, and by the way, not only did magic work that time, but medicine also didn't that other time". You are not on the fence about this. You are on the side of encouraging people to fool themselves or to get fooled into choosing fake treatments not just over none at all, but over effective ones. You are on the side of suffering and death, sir, and while I'll acknowledge your right to make that choice, I feel no obligation to respect it, nor to leave promotions of it to others unchallenged.

Maybe in Carlos' view I'm less of a "Jeddist" for it. That is a judgement I can frankly live with. I'm sure the desperate and suffering are most grateful to know that the two of you stood by their free choice to forfeit medical treatments in favour of quackery. I'd say the same of the dead, too, but alas those don't feel gratitude anymore.

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06 Oct 2019 13:47 #344143 by Carlos.Martinez3
Maybe in Carlos' view I'm less of a "Jeddist" for it.

This is obviously a deep and close personal idea for you. I thank you for sharing it with me. I couldn’t and prolly won’t ever find anyone else equal to your dedication to this subject and as valuable as your seek on the matter. I am terribly sorry you think that way. I would love to break that idea anytime. Wish I could change your mind but at last it’s been the same way for years. Any how won’t derail the thread. People have every right to choose or not to choose. Taking or making your opportunities to stand for what you believe in isn’t unJeddist in my opinion but a bit more. How we defend is sometimes as obvious as what color out saber is. To me - it’s obvious you glow this color and use this style. It IS opposite mine ( for this subject)!- two different color sabers —— heat and cool pitch and hue - can you feel and see them??... the zzzzzz and the Krashes like thunder every time they collide?
Thank you for always taking your side. Thank you for never being a “yes person.” I’ve never know you to be in all my years of knowing you here. Thank you. Please don’t think I personally think you less anything - oh no no no no if anything yout faithfulness to our faith has stood longer than most. Don’t make that mistake Gisteron.
I don’t need to fight. I try to be present most times. That’s all. Count me in but I will defend. That’s not the case here. I wish you well- I truly do and hope that we CAN be not the same and yet both Jedi. I can and I will after each post. That’s my decision, as much as each is to theirs as they do the same. People like you ... and me... Jeddist but - different. Same name different style. That’s the hardest and most common theme a modern day Jeddist has- being Jedi is easy - practicing it and figuring it out and being able to make and choose our own path ... while others do the same... can be challenging. I still enjoy the ebb n flow and have to remind myself - I’m never far from reproach or redemption. Force be with you still ... Gist, I know it is.

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06 Oct 2019 13:47 #344144 by Carlos.Martinez3
Maybe in Carlos' view I'm less of a "Jeddist" for it.

This is obviously a deep and close personal idea for you. I thank you for sharing it with me. I couldn’t and prolly won’t ever find anyone else equal to your dedication to this subject and as valuable as your seek on the matter. I am terribly sorry you think that way. I would love to break that idea anytime. Wish I could change your mind but at last it’s been the same way for years. Any how won’t derail the thread. People have every right to choose or not to choose. Taking or making your opportunities to stand for what you believe in isn’t unJeddist in my opinion but a bit more. How we defend is sometimes as obvious as what color out saber is. To me - it’s obvious you glow this color and use this style. It IS opposite mine ( for this subject)!- two different color sabers —— heat and cool pitch and hue - can you feel and see them??... the zzzzzz and the Krashes like thunder every time they collide?
Thank you for always taking your side. Thank you for never being a “yes person.” I’ve never know you to be in all my years of knowing you here. Thank you. Please don’t think I personally think you less anything - oh no no no no if anything yout faithfulness to our faith has stood longer than most. Don’t make that mistake Gisteron.
I don’t need to fight. I try to be present most times. That’s all. Count me in but I will defend. That’s not the case here. I wish you well- I truly do and hope that we CAN be not the same and yet both Jedi. I can and I will after each post. That’s my decision, as much as each is to theirs as they do the same. People like you ... and me... Jeddist but - different. Same name different style. That’s the hardest and most common theme a modern day Jeddist has- being Jedi is easy - practicing it and figuring it out and being able to make and choose our own path ... while others do the same... can be challenging. I still enjoy the ebb n flow and have to remind myself - I’m never far from reproach or redemption. Force be with you still ... Gist, I know it is.

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06 Oct 2019 14:17 #344146 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Certified Reiki Master
At times, you know, I wish I too could speak here openly without suspension risks like you can. Mayhaps that day shall come eventually...

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06 Oct 2019 17:32 #344147 by TheDude
Replied by TheDude on topic Certified Reiki Master
Suspension risk? Gisteron, please speak your mind freely, insofar as nothing runs into the realms of threats or personal insults. If anyone tries to pull a suspension on you simply for demanding scientific rigor in a health-related area, they'll have to deal with me talking their ears off about the sheer unprofessionalism of such an act until said suspension is lifted.

It is arguably immoral to promote miracle cures for serious ailments with a system of energy healing, as even if it is entirely effective there has not been a sufficient amount of research demonstrating its effectiveness. Consequently, it would be irresponsible for a doctor or medical scientist to prescribe reiki treatments. With that being said, I would love for the reiki practitioners here at TOTJO to contribute to medical science by actively testing their techniques and comparing outcomes with placebos and other treatment methods -- doing so on a large enough scale would put to rest any argument over the effectiveness of reiki and would benefit us all.

Until such research is performed, I will remain uncommitted to either the claim that it is helpful or dangerous pseudoscience, personally.
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06 Oct 2019 17:35 #344148 by Carlos.Martinez3
I would be hands down all in with a test and even a few basic lessons n such.

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