Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Tellahane wrote: One must always assume that anything and everything they may know may be wrong or inaccurate. I mean how long was the world "flat"? New things get disprove/proven all the time we don't have a perfect understanding of any one thing in our existence at all really..

Fun fact, it was never believed to be flat. Even ancient Egyptians knew it to be round. Reason why they never tried to go around to Asia through the Atlantic is they didn't know about the Americas, and their math made it seem like a suicide mission. Only reason why Columbus was ever allowed to was because he theorised the world was smaller than it actually is. The "Flat Earth" thing was an argument used to make people feel stupid, because everyone knows the earth is round. There, that's a thing you know now.

Sorry, had to say it. Ignorance, yet Knowledge and all that Jedi Jazz.

Back on track:

Tellahane wrote: I think it will come down to a common ground of "preferred qualities" perhaps, that is something to aim for and work towards, not something that will be flipped on like a light switch. Training comes in many forms and many methods, physical, mental, emotional etc...but the thing with all training is its hardest when you first start, and the more you do it the more your used to it, the more things become muscle/mental memory, the easier it becomes until it's pretty much natural.

But what of those that have given up on their training. Many here don't pursue training here, or even at all, preferring to use this place this as any other forum. Other people have given up on their apprenticeships and prefer to not move forward. I find those that are new here are amongst some of the better Jedi here, as they've not yet become embroiled in the problems this place has and have undergone more training than previous "generations".

And about training... what of those that haven't undergone training as many here have? An issue brought up time and time again is that Imitates have done more training here (and become arguably better jedi) that those that clutch onto that "grandmaster" title. Whats the point of asking people to grow when those on top sit pretty and refuse to do the training expected of those lower in rank?

Manu wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: This was really the point of my post on page one as well. This place will never be able to regulate kindness. Instead kindness needs to be felt. It can be felt best through personal interaction. Personal interaction does not typically happen on a two dimensional post board. Open the rules on the board but then practice personal interaction through real life.

So, does this mean you will be travelling to Ecuador to meet me? I would certainly like to meet you in person.

My world tour begins next week and Ecuador is my first stop!

Arisaig wrote:
I was thinking along the lines of these two teachings:

2. Jedi maintain a clear mind; which can be achieved through meditation and contemplation. Our minds can become unduly troubled and co.....

The problem with trying to enforce anything like this becomes impossible for two reasons. The first is that everyone is in a different place when it comes to those words and everyone has a different interpretation. The second is that we dont live our lives by building connections to words, we live our lives by building connections to people. I dont care how hard you try, you will never be able to fully live up to any creed, there is no emotional connection. Instead you have a much better chance of living up to a promise to another individual. One in whom you can build an emotional connection with.

Arisaig wrote: And about training... what of those that haven't undergone training as many here have? An issue brought up time and time again is that Imitates have done more training here (and become arguably better jedi) that those that clutch onto that "grandmaster" title. Whats the point of asking people to grow when those on top sit pretty and refuse to do the training expected of those lower in rank?

You raise a valid point here. It cannot all be about training. Some of it needs to be an expectation of every single person walking through the door, regardless of their intention or position. There needs to be a baseline for acceptable behavior. One doesn't walk into a church and start screaming profanities. Why? Because it is widely understood that this is unacceptable behavior in a church. We need to establish our own widely accepted standards and make sure everyone is aware of them. We're currently working on this, as evidenced by this thread.

I also agree that the newest here are often better at living the Doctrine because it is new and exciting. It is top of mind. It hasn't been taken for granted yet and most have not been jaded by some of the negativity that can sprout up from time to time. Sorry to bring up the fiction, but this was actually addressed in The Last Jedi by Yoda. In speaking of students to Luke, he says "we are what they grow beyond." He recognizes that every new generation should be better than the last and surpass them. It is the fate of a Master to feel that they have failed their students, when in reality, it is their students who outgrow them. They should learn from our failures and also build on our progress. I have told both of my Apprentices that I will have failed them if they do not surpass me in their ability to pass on wisdom and knowledge to students of their own.

It is a shame that there are many here in higher ranks or holding offices that do not continue to train and grow, but we need to be careful about focusing too much on this. In time, this Temple will outgrow all of us, and no "Grand Master" of today will ever compare to one in the future. Some focus their efforts on administration, some focus on teaching others, and some just fade away or get lazy. Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

Senan wrote:

Arisaig wrote: And about training... what of those that haven't undergone training as many here have? An issue brought up time and time again is that Imitates have done more training here (and become arguably better jedi) that those that clutch onto that "grandmaster" title. Whats the point of asking people to grow when those on top sit pretty and refuse to do the training expected of those lower in rank?

You raise a valid point here. It cannot all be about training. Some of it needs to be an expectation of every single person walking through the door, regardless of their intention or position. There needs to be a baseline for acceptable behavior. One doesn't walk into a church and start screaming profanities. Why? Because it is widely understood that this is unacceptable behavior in a church. We need to establish our own widely accepted standards and make sure everyone is aware of them. We're currently working on this, as evidenced by this thread.

I also agree that the newest here are often better at living the Doctrine because it is new and exciting. It is top of mind. It hasn't been taken for granted yet and most have not been jaded by some of the negativity that can sprout up from time to time. Sorry to bring up the fiction, but this was actually addressed in The Last Jedi by Yoda. In speaking of students to Luke, he says "we are what they grow beyond." He recognizes that every new generation should be better than the last and surpass them. It is the fate of a Master to feel that they have failed their students, when in reality, it is their students who outgrow them. They should learn from our failures and also build on our progress. I have told both of my Apprentices that I will have failed them if they do not surpass me in their ability to pass on wisdom and knowledge to students of their own.

It is a shame that there are many here in higher ranks or holding offices that do not continue to train and grow, but we need to be careful about focusing too much on this. In time, this Temple will outgrow all of us, and no "Grand Master" of today will ever compare to one in the future. Some focus their efforts on administration, some focus on teaching others, and some just fade away or get lazy. Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

Yoda: That is the true burden of all masters. We are what they grow beyond.

I do understand that point, well explained. As... unideal (If I can use a fake word there)... as this situation is, again I'm overly focusing on this moment, rather than later.

A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

Stephen wrote: A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

TBH, I've started thinking that when you contact the Clergy, you maybe should get a mediator when the situation warrants.

A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

I've played this game before in the workplace - If people don't get the resolution they were hoping for, they cry that the ombudsman/mediator is on the same side as the brass, or in some other way corrupt or incompetent.

situation is still not resolved, now there are just more irritated parties.

JamesSand wrote:

A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

I've played this game before in the workplace - If people don't get the resolution they were hoping for, they cry that the ombudsman/mediator is on the same side as the brass, or in some other way corrupt or incompetent.

situation is still not resolved, now there are just more irritated parties.

Agreed. Almost feel like whomever was the mediator would need to be trained in such methods (much akin to an ombudsman), and would have to be one of those special people that can take that kind of bad-guy-on-both-sides stress.

If someone reacts that way to mediation, instead of trying to find a peaceful out come.
Personally, I think they need more help than the temple can give them.

A man who puts himself in the path of danger, deserves to face it alone.
- Qui-Gon Jinn