Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Senan wrote: I'm not here to call anyone out, but I believe it is fair to point out that you, Zenchi, had an opportunity to be on the inside. You had access to the inner workings of this place and you could've been the window for the rest of the membership to see into the administration of this place. You could've helped us make the changes we are trying to faithfully execute right now. You've demonstrated time and again your ability to rally the troops toward a cause and get people motivated. You too, Arisaig. You are both strong voices in this Temple. With a spirit of cooperation and a lot of patience, we can achieve our common goals. We need your help.

I must not have made my reasoning clear as to why I stepped down in the first place, I sincerely hope specifics aren't required as I really don't want to see this turn into a pissing match, so fingers crossed a screen shot and a link say everything needed to freshen people's memories....



https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Journals/105625-the-book-of-zenchi?start=60

By the way, I was told I was up for advisor two weeks ago, I said sure, but made it clear I wasn't going to get soft for the sake of some illusion called progress. Shrugs, when it comes down to it, council looks out for council, and aren't interested in someone joining holding them accountable....

Senan wrote: It is also worth noting that through all of this, Br. John and Neaj Pa Bol have been supportive, open to change, and communicating with all of us on a daily basis. To give you an idea, I was added to a text group containing the current Councillors two days ago and I've seen almost a hundred messages back and forth. This is in addition to regular communication in the Council Forum and on Skype. All of this effort is happening despite the difficulties of being on multiple continents, in different time zones, and juggling our own personal and professional lives. It is not meant to be hidden. It is simply too much to share with everyone all of the time. It would be the equivalent of asking an air traffic control tower to share and explain every communication they have with every aircraft.

I do hope this is true, because if it is perhaps there is hope of something happening. Until actions meet words however it is just that, words.

Until then, I work towards making this place better with my boots on the ground.

Zenchi wrote: Shrugs, when it comes down to it, council looks out for council, and aren't interested in someone joining holding them accountable....

This isn't the same council Brother. Don't lose faith.

JLSpinner wrote:

Zenchi wrote: Shrugs, when it comes down to it, council looks out for council, and aren't interested in someone joining holding them accountable....

This isn't the same council Brother. Don't lose faith.

Still has a lot of the same members. Hoping this infusion of new blood gets the heart of TotJO pumping again, but until we see vital signs its too early to call anything...

I have faith in many of those that have recently joined council. But until we see movement, its still a dead heart.

Patience, my friend. And be wary of expectations. There are many facets of this temple in motion, adapting, and shifting. How it looks in the end will entirely depend on what we do here now. On how well we can focus and forgive. On how well we support each other and edify.
Don't be silent. Don't be deafening. Be the Jedi we can be and let's figure out how to move forward with realistic and globally beneficial goals. Take the survey if you haven't. Bring more points to the discussion. But we have to do this together with the spirit of respect and love. We have to have faith.

Arisaig wrote: Still has a lot of the same members. Hoping this infusion of new blood gets the heart of TotJO pumping again, but until we see vital signs its too early to call anything...

I have faith in many of those that have recently joined council. But until we see movement, its still a dead heart.

This community is very lively, for a place with a dead heart.

Manu wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Still has a lot of the same members. Hoping this infusion of new blood gets the heart of TotJO pumping again, but until we see vital signs its too early to call anything...

I have faith in many of those that have recently joined council. But until we see movement, its still a dead heart.

This community is very lively, for a place with a dead heart.

Fun, albeit morbid fact, dead bodies are known to move for a while after death while rigor mortis sets in.

But as I said, I have faith that this injection of new members of the council may be enough to get things going again.

Arisaig wrote: I do hope this is true, because if it is perhaps there is hope of something happening. Until actions meet words however it is just that, words.

Until then, I work towards making this place better with my boots on the ground.

Are you implying that our boots are not on the ground? From the amount of flak we take, it certainly feels like the front lines. Actions are meeting words everyday both inside and outside of Council, but it requires people who are willing to take notice of the work actually being done by everyone. Doing work outside of official channels is fine, but it doesn’t have greater value than the work being done within. We’re all trying to make things better in the ways that we can, and everyone is the heart of this Temple. If anything, it is this “us versus them” mentality that is a culture problem here.

Senan wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I do hope this is true, because if it is perhaps there is hope of something happening. Until actions meet words however it is just that, words.

Until then, I work towards making this place better with my boots on the ground.

Are you implying that our boots are not on the ground? From the amount of flak we take, it certainly feels like the front lines. Actions are meeting words everyday both inside and outside of Council, but it requires people who are willing to take notice of the work actually being done by everyone. Doing work outside of official channels is fine, but it doesn’t have greater value than the work being done within. We’re all trying to make things better in the ways that we can, and everyone is the heart of this Temple. If anything, it is this “us versus them” mentality that is a culture problem here.

I did not imply that your boots are not on the ground, brother. I know many (mostly the newer members) of the council still know what its like to see nothing done after much debate. I'm hoping that desire to be better plays over and we see change. It has, however, only been two days. I don't expect much to have happened in that time, nor did I expect anything to happen so quickly. I am patient.

EDIT: there is a reason you and the other former members of the advisory were voted in. Because you had thick layers of mud on your boots. I hope to see you continue to bring the fight to the trenches.

Ok, I am going to try to not take what was said personally and get all snippy. But considering this place takes up three hours of my day every day and its the first thing I do in the morning and just about the last thing I do before bed its hard not to. The us vs them is a very big issue. To hear myself as part of the council called a dead heart considering the amount of effort and work I put in is not exactly pleasant.

Why are things done slowly? Because I have one group that wants harsher rules for treating people badly, I have another that want clear rules that allow maximum freedom of discussion, then there is always a third group that will not like any changes. THEN there is my opinions and the views of the rest of the Council. And that is just to get it written. From there I have to make sure that anything that gets passed not only suits the culture and membership of the Temple but I have to make it work so that people are not unfairly treated by rules that are too rigid or allowed to run roughshod over others due to rules that are too lax.

Then we need time to debate it. To make sure that all sides are heard and to consider its impact on people. Despite what you think the Council is not of one mind on things. In fact, I have argued rather heatedly with people at times. I just do not do it via public channels even in council because I keep that stuff away from the public eye.
Finally in the midst of all my duties here I have my Apprentices to think of, I have my own training to do, I want to add training material for people to use, oh and it would be nice to be able to socialize without an argument at some point.

The fact is I am guilty of treating those doing the work poorly as an Apprentice. The second I got out a shovel and started working myself to fix things I realized its slow for a reason. I can only say we are hearing you and working on it. But there are a lot of voices and not everyone wants the same thing. So we have to try to mesh it all as best we can while considering if it will be useful and sensibly done