Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

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23 Dec 2017 20:14 - 23 Dec 2017 20:16 #309482 by Avalon
Sure. That's why I said it was a community effort. Nor did I mean to imply the things I mentioned don't happen (or only exclusively happen, as it might be with the negative). The OP asked for what problems we perceived within Temple culture. I merely pointed out what myself, and quite a few others, have been saying for months are some of those problems. Or areas that have room for improvement.

Refusing to acknowledge or accept that these areas of improvement exist doesn't make them disappear. Nor does a chunk of the community brushing them under the rug or failing to acknowledge that those are areas they need to personally improve.

As a church, I would hope that we want to adopt a culture where said areas are improved, and I tried to provide general suggestions on how to do so.

As it stands right now, TOTJO doesn't come across as a place where those who have emotional troubles can find refuge in a widely supportive community, which is what people seek for in a church community. We have slowly become a more exclusive community and less of a church community. And that doesn't seem to be something many people are acknowledging.

But I've had my say on the matter. I'll be curious to see where it goes from here.

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Last edit: 23 Dec 2017 20:16 by Avalon.
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23 Dec 2017 20:40 #309483 by Atticus
Replied by Atticus on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems
I get what you're saying, Ava. This is something I very much want to improve too, and I've been plenty vocal about it, so I know you're not implying that *I* don't acknowledge there's a problem. I'm only trying to point out that sometimes neither the member in distress nor the clergy are in the best position to see when clerical outreach might be warranted.

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23 Dec 2017 20:54 #309484 by Stephen
Replied by Stephen on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems
The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?

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23 Dec 2017 20:56 #309485 by Goken
Replied by Goken on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems
Given the purpose of this thread I'm going to be uncharacteristically blunt. It is not my intention to offend anyone but if I do, I hope that the offended parties take some time and step away to really think about why what I said offended them before replying. Now on to it.

Personally, the biggest issues that I see facing this Temple have barely been mentioned in this thread, and honestly I don't think that they should be. Those are issues for a different time and a more specific audience.

One problem that I do see that I'd like to bring up is, ironically, the feeling that all of our problems need to be aired out publicly for the world to read. Not every problem needs to be a public one, especially ones that start via PM or are problems with one particular person. This Temple does have processes in place for dealing with these sorts of issues and they should be followed. The purpose of the forum is not to talk in circles about our problems with the Temple or our fellow Jedi, but to learn and grow. Yes, sometimes that involves discussing our problems with each other, but we gain nothing from finger pointing, name calling, and general whining about this, that, and whatever else is bothering us today.

The first thing a new person visiting this Temple sees should not be three newly created threads about why our feelings got hurt or just general complaining. Even the threads who's sole purpose is to bring about positive interactions start by saying "in light of recent negativity." That's not exactly confidence inspiring.

Lastly, the name of this thread implies that the issues are wide spread and involve everyone. That's not to say that most of us are blameless, I know that I am not blameless, but if we are really honest with ourselves and really examine the threads leading up to this one we see not the thousands of members or even the hundred or so regularly active members here as Zenchi has mentioned. We see a select few, a vocal minority, arguing back and forth. Can five or so people really be called a cultural issue?

Now of those select few, many (most, actually) have only the Temple's best interest at heart. Some, though, are just rabble rousing. It's hard to tell the difference but not impossible.

One thing that we can all do is remember how many of us do just have the Temple's best interest at heart, how many of us just want to help, and we help no one by arguing with each other all the time. Remember that arguing only feeds the rabble rousers and dissuades those with pure motives.

Thank you all for reading and for working tirelessly for the members of this Temple. May the Force be with you.

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23 Dec 2017 21:06 - 23 Dec 2017 21:15 #309488 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Stephen wrote: The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?


Clergy is great for spiritual problems, we actually have a "Contact Clergy" button at the top if you need to get in contact with them.

As for questions about Jediism, we have the chat at the bottom right hand corner of the screen. Someone is usually online to be able to help :) If anything, my inbox is always open to questions.
Last edit: 23 Dec 2017 21:15 by Arisaig.

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23 Dec 2017 21:26 #309491 by Atticus
Replied by Atticus on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Stephen wrote: The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?


Thank you, my man, this is really helpful. I mean, I know just about all the clergy, and there isn't one of them that wouldn't have my back in a heartbeat. But you're exactly right, someone walking in off the street wouldn't necessarily know that.

I'm very interested in hearing anyone's ideas about how the clergy can improve their approachability. I have a couple simple things that I do, but I am aware that I'm not the most visible cleric out there.

(As a postscript, there are to my knowledge at least three or four productive conversations happening now as a result of this thread. That's just the ones I'm in on. It makes me happy to see so many people working to take what is said here and turn it into positive action planning for the good of the Temple.)

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23 Dec 2017 22:27 #309497 by Stephen
Replied by Stephen on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems
I tried to use the contact Clergy button and the form to fill out was easy to fill out.
But, to write down a personal question about your faith / belief and then send it to ? I don't know who. Then hope to get an email or whatever response some time soon.
It felt like filing a request. Not sending a message to a spiritual guide.
I would have liked to know who the Clergy were and how to PM them.
This is a Temple / a Church.
The Clergy or Cleric or Pastor should be easy to contact / message.
I hope my experience can be used in a positive way. It is not a bad thing if knowledge is gained.

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23 Dec 2017 23:40 - 23 Dec 2017 23:43 #309502 by Twigga
Replied by Twigga on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems
In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?
Last edit: 23 Dec 2017 23:43 by Twigga. Reason: Clarity. I was just babbling an answer with zero context before!

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23 Dec 2017 23:43 #309503 by MadHatter

Twigga wrote: In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?


I like the idea of a meet the clergy form and I am working on some stuff to make it easy to find some basics

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23 Dec 2017 23:44 #309504 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Twigga wrote: In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?


This. Yes. Excellent idea Twigga!

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