Jedi and Doctrine question

The Order is not in the business of telling anyone they are not a Jedi. This is a religion of non-religion in that it encourages questioning itself. The doctrine, the creed etc - could it all be a koan? Even this you must discover yourself. If I tell you it is I'm lying but if I tell you it's not I'm wrong.

Question authority, doubt your doubts and be skeptical of your skepticism.

On Teaching
~ Kahlil Gibran

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.

The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.

If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.

The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.

On Self-Knowledge
~ Kahlil Gibran

Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.
But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart's knowledge.
You would know in words that which you have always known in thought.
You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.

And it is well you should.
The hidden well-spring of your soul must needs rise and run murmuring to the sea;
And the treasure of your infinite depths would be revealed to your eyes.
But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure;
And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding line.
For self is a sea boundless and measureless.

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the soul walking upon my path."
For the soul walks upon all paths.
The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.
The soul unfolds itself like a lotus of countless petals.

den385 wrote: I still see a vast gap between Jedi and Jediist. Philosophy/religion/spiritual terms help navigate it. It's akin to gap between Christ and christian, Buddha and buddhist - so is with Jedi and Jediist. Maybe, by this definition I myself am not a Jedi. But better shoot for the stars for me.

Christ and Buddha are revered holy figures, a Jedi is not. There is no 'Jediism personified' individual that we follow/worship (unless we count ourselves). We have no 'greater being', we don't even have people in this temple that are more or less important than others.

Sure we have admin, council, knights and clergy, but just looking at our sermons you'll see several contributions from 'earlier ranks' ie. apprentice.

Edan wrote:

den385 wrote: Perhaps, we might add some psychology into IP, to fortify sound sense and safeguard from manipulations, lunacy and plain old bullshit. The problem is, most psychology books seem to be bullshit, too.

This your professional opinion, grounded in science? I'd like to see your sources...

By no means am I a professional in psychology. Rather an experienced diletant.

Mindfulness Upward spiral Social

Christ and Buddha are revered holy figures, a Jedi is not. There is no 'Jediism personified' individual that we follow/worship (unless we count ourselves). We have no 'greater being', we don't even have people in this temple that are more or less important than others.

My personal definition of a Jedi includes a Quest. Perhaps that's all it is - my personal definition of a Jedi.

You are not alone in your feelings Den. I do not believe the Jedi (or rather my views of Jedi) to be a religion. And I do view "Religion" and "Spirituality" as two separate things

Religion: A governed society with structure of hierarchy that tells people how to behave and what to believe

Spirituality: A personal enlightenment

The idea of Jedi being a Religion didn't come about until the news media mocked us with the term Jediism. Members since then took it to heart. I view Jedi to be a method of set principles and standards that one applies into their normal lives. It doesn't replace one's religion or spirituality, it is simply a direction of growth. Much like committing to a style of Martial Arts all your life is a method of buffering your already set, spiritual morals.

I do however....wonder if we should have this split into a new thread? It seems off topic?

Trisskar wrote: I do however....wonder if we should have this split into a new thread? It seems off topic?

Yes ) In fact, I did want to start a thread about religion vs philosophy vs spirituality, Jedi way, path and "ism". You're welcome to start it inst-of me )

den385 wrote:

Trisskar wrote: I do however....wonder if we should have this split into a new thread? It seems off topic?

Yes ) In fact, I did want to start a thread about religion vs philosophy vs spirituality, Jedi way, path and "ism". You're welcome to start it inst-of me )

Bah! I figured we could have an admin pick a point where this topic began and use the almighty "Split" option that these forums have We can wait when they are awake and available! That way we can keep the flow going

Trisskar wrote: I do however....wonder if we should have this split into a new thread? It seems off topic?

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/62836-jediism-religion-chioce-or-philosophy