The Field, and Lynn McTaggert

Wescli Wardest wrote: Who are we really to judge the validity of another or their work

Would just like to point out that, in the fiction, that kind of thinking is the slippery slope that lands you in a river of lava screaming at Ewan McGregor. :whistle:

Yes....

Your point is made Ty, and now there is a semi heated discussion in Council...

For those of us not scientifically minded, or who have never heard of McTaggart, the book makes sense....

It showed that some author (with questionable credentials evidently) said that their are others out there who think along similar lines about the worlds connectivity....

Your other points on her stances on vaccinations and whatever are e cellent points.... Showing her questionable credentials...

Do you have a replacement in mind?

Something scientific, and easy for the guy like me who barely made it through high school...

There's a call on Council to just flat remove it....

I can't get behind that, at this time...

It was also said in that discussion in Council that we all have to do things we disagree with, sometimes, to get through and to implement change...

Its not going to be removed tonight...

Probably not tomorrow night....

This thread isn't going to solve the issue...

It has merely brought it back into the light... At least two of the people discussing this with you, agreed with you, and also held your points, and brought this up before....

You work somewhere, I suppose...

So, tomorrow, you get a new boss, better educated, and well spoken...

After his second or third day, he starts telling you that your current method of procedure is wrong, and you need to fix it...

Now, you know its not quite right, but lack a replacement for parts of it... And he's not offering ideas on it... (maybe you have, and I missed it, this thread blew up, and I've been busy this weekend, sonic slimmed of, lol..)

How you gonna feel?

NO ONE HERE is against change, well, lol, mostly, lolol....

But, change happens slow, and after much thought....

Maybe I missed it in those other discissions, but, I don't recall the evidence against her being presented as well... Meaning including the non-"Field" related....

So, Mr. New Supervisor, do you have a suggestion to replace her/this lesson with something?

Honest question...

I'm kind of a Goofball, so know I'm smiling as I write this...

Ty wrote: But isn't it part of the duty of a Jedi to find out the truth, when possible, and act as mediator? To resolve conflict?

If someone is clearly in the wrong, and some people just cannot see it, isn't it the path of the Jedi to work with that?

McTaggert is clearly wrong, and her stances on health and vaccines cause measurable harm. That is not an opinion, that is medical fact, supported by mountains of evidence.

Shouldn't it be a Jedi's calling to be open to such a conclusion, to gain knowledge?

Wisdom is in the application of knowledge, so then it would be up to the individual, but as a whole, I should think it is a Jedi's calling to teach, as well as to protect.

You're right. As a Jedi that's what you do.

Some of the IP is mysterious, confounding, contradictory and often infuriating. (Hint: Koan) There's training aspects to it but it's also to see if one can be trained. I agree we need to add some commentary to it including a better introduction.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

If someone is clearly in the wrong, and some people just cannot see it, isn't it the path of the Jedi to work with that?

Who are we really to judge the validity of another or their work?[/quote

If you are qualified in a given field, or you can prove with objective, verifiable evidence that someone is wrong, then you should let them know. If they refuse to accept it, then their ignorance is on them, but at least you tried. If we do not judge the validity of other's work for ourselves, then we run the grave risk of being more gullible than is strictly healthy.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

McTaggert is clearly wrong, and her stances on health and vaccines cause measurable harm. That is not an opinion, that is medical fact, supported by mountains of evidence.

And as information changes it is important to continue to learn. But is it not also important to know where ones "knowledge" once was?

Of course it's important to continue to learn, but you shouldn't start from a position of falsehood. Everyone starts from ignorance, and it is good to remember that we all were, at one point, ignorant. But that does not mean we shouldn't try to learn more, try to better ourselves, and point out folly or fallacy where we see it.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Shouldn't it be a Jedi's calling to be open to such a conclusion, to gain knowledge?

Knowledge that can be measured and weighed is not the end of wisdom or learning. It is the beginning. And from that beginning we reach for understanding through knowledge, focus, wisdom and the Force.

Knowledge that can be verified is the only kind of knowledge that you can prove to be accurate, though I concede it is not the only kind of knowledge. There are other kinds of things that it is good to know other than lists of facts and figures. Still, you say that is the beginning. True. Knowledge is information, wisdom is the ability to use that to best benefit someone or something outside of yourself, generally.

But you cannot reach wisdom if you start from a position of false knowledge. If you think you know something to be true, but it is not, you cannot reach wisdom- you only can either persist in your mistaken belief, or discover it is mistaken. So, when speaking of Mctaggert, it is good to realize she is blowing smoke. That she knows nothing of the subject which she claims to understand. And it is good to know that she does harm to others.

All these things give you knowledge, and give you a place to start to seek true answers that come from a place of understanding and not ignorance, as McTaggert's do.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Wisdom is in the application of knowledge, so then it would be up to the individual, but as a whole, I should think it is a Jedi's calling to teach, as well as to protect.

It is a Jedi's calling to understand, be compassionate, and the courage of our convictions. Life will teach the lessons and that is guided by the Force.

I can understand McTaggert well enough to know that her motives are not pure or wholesome- she is riding the gravy train of all natural, holistic, new age woo all the way to the bank, cackling all the way. I am compassionate for those she bilks, and I will continue to stand against her and all those like her, who would dupe the public with pseudoscientific claims and quackery.



EDIT: Jestor, I will certainly find some better books, and get back to you.

Do you prefer open content, or something that each novitiate would need to pay for?

Let me also say that I don't post to end the conversation, only to.move in a more focused, and positive direction...

We agree there's an issue...

Now, you brainiacs solve it...

Lol...

But, keeping this dummy in mind...

I will be looking for something that can fill the void. I know my own views on what the force means, but as far as I know, there is nothing out there that quite fills that void.

So I will look. And if I do not find anything that fits perfectly, I will find other things, and help the council write something more comprehensive and scientific, if that is what you wish.

I happened to enjoy The Field. Maybe because I went into it with an open mind and an understanding that it was presenting a possibility and not a fact, and I am open to possibility. I don't need concrete proof to believe something is possible, and fact changes all the time. What is fact today can be proven untrue tomorrow and what is only a possibility today can be proven as fact. So what's the point in dismissing every possibility because it can't be proven today? Thank goodness scientists don't dismiss possibility or science would not even exist!

And I'm not going to judge her work on The Field based on her other works. I may or may not agree with her other ideas, but it has nothing to do with The Field, so I'm really not concerned about it.

I think this TED talk might be a good place to start.

http://www.ted.com/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html

If people can follow this, awesome.

If not, I'll see what else I can find that helps explain it better, but in all honesty, the science behind why it is reasonable to think the Force exists is pretty complicated, and I only have a dim grasp on it myself, since I cannot understand the math involved.

Thank you Ty...

Maybe something basic for beginners, and we could offer more difficult for those more educated as bonus... just a thought...

I'm going to go watch the TedTalk now...

As I said before, I hate "The Field", but I don't think it should be removed from the IP. Perhaps supplemented, perhaps given a disclaimer, perhaps given another book that has a counterpoint to the completely b.s. misunderstanding of science that McTaggert has, but not removed entirely.

There is still a lot to be learned from it, even if it is a bad example.