Why do people here feel unimportant?

Senan wrote: To feel unimportant, attacked, or outside the clique is to forget that we're all connected.

I'm trying to say that I wish the other guy, the attacker, would remember that too. I feel like a lot fewer attacks would happen, or that they'd be a lot less brutal, if we all did.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Manu wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: There are dozens of people that read a post without saying a word to anyone. I'm as interested in those people's opinions of me too. And yes, it does matter, because when I'm done being the person taking action and fighting the uphill skirmish, I might need a friend.

* Raises hand * You've got a friend right here. You're high energy and sometimes highly-strung, and I love it! :kiss:

Hehe, thanks, Manu. You're a good potato xD

You have another friend here aswell , i hope you know that , i often dont respond because i dont want to get involved in petty arguments but not telling what i think is not helping either apparantly , lately i notice that its gving me tantrums hahahah i can laugh now but i was shocked about my own behaviour and now after good meditation and reflection i know its ok to get angry and showing it in the good way , as all Jedi , i am still and always learning !! All of us are students in this place and we can learn a lot from eachother

E-3_4L_Teeter wrote:

Br. John wrote: Well Adi, since you feel like shit and it's all because of a community I founded - I'll certainly take any suggestions on how I can make you feel better? If it's something I can do within reason I'll do my best.

OK. I was reading through this before and I caught sight of this. No offense, but this came off really condescending. Like a store manager being passive aggressive to a customer that has a problem. I can appreciate that sometimes, conflicts occur. But we're better than being condescending about someone's opinion.

Let's follow along with the store manager analogy since I spent many years employed in retail. You have a problem or a bad experience with the store and come to me - the manager. I say tell me what I can do to make the situation better and if it's anything reasonable I'll do my best to help you. This situation has happened too many times for me to count in the decades I spent in retail and this is the approach I learned to use. I've been thanked, won customer service awards, made people happy or at least less frustrated - but this is the first time I've been criticized for it.

Alright then.

Br. John wrote:

E-3_4L_Teeter wrote:

Br. John wrote: Well Adi, since you feel like shit and it's all because of a community I founded - I'll certainly take any suggestions on how I can make you feel better? If it's something I can do within reason I'll do my best.

OK. I was reading through this before and I caught sight of this. No offense, but this came off really condescending. Like a store manager being passive aggressive to a customer that has a problem. I can appreciate that sometimes, conflicts occur. But we're better than being condescending about someone's opinion.

Let's follow along with the store manager analogy since I spent many years employed in retail. You have a problem or a bad experience with the store and come to me - the manager. I say tell me what I can do to make the situation better and if it's anything reasonable I'll do my best to help you. This situation has happened too many times for me to count in the decades I spent in retail and this is the approach I learned to use. I've been thanked, won customer service awards, made people happy or at least less frustrated - but this is the first time I've been criticized for it.

Alright then.

There's really not much more someone can do than ask if they can help and promise to do as much as they can. I'm probably one of the touchiest people here, and I didn't detect anything condescending in what you said. It seemed like a genuine attempt to help resolve something that was going around in circles for endless repetitions.

Again we see the issue with our interactions being text based. No inflection. Rereading the initial quote, it could very easily be read with a sarcastic tone (try reading it like Chandler Bing from Friends :lol: ) but it could just as easily be read with a nice, helpful tone.

I think it would also benefit everyone to ask themselves if the message was meant to be negative or if it could also have been positive. Maybe ask for clarification from the sender or ask another person how they perceived it.

Since I was the subject of the original comment, I will weigh in — but only once. I won't post any further in this thread, but I think it is important to point out the power of words here and why they ought to be chosen wisely. Br. John's words, as I read them, were patronizing and condescending. Why? An important string in what he said: "you feel like shit and it's all because of a community I founded." Let's establish what is being said here:

1) Br. John says Adi feels like shit.
2) Br. John says he founded a community.
3) Br. John says Adi feels like shit because of that community.

This is a gross oversimplification of things on multiple levels, which is ultimately why the post comes off as patronizing. For one, Br. John did not shape this entire community from clay with his bare hands as if he were a god. This community has been shaped by the people in it, over a period spanning over ten years, and has its roots even further back than that. Br. John may be an important figure, but he is not the figure. The store manager analogy doesn't really work here because a store is much bigger than just the manager. Yes, when it comes down to employee misconduct or customer unhappiness, usually the buck stops with the manager. But it is often more complicated than that. In our case, the store is *much* bigger than "the manager." In this situation, who founded the community is totally irrelevant.

Second, I did not "feel like shit" because of "this community," regardless of who shapes the community. Because of things in this community, certainly. But because of this community itself, specifically and separately? Not in the least. This community has brought me great joy and peace. This community has helped me find a greater sort of spiritual challenge than I had before, something I needed badly and always need. This community has introduced me to wonderful friends who I consider as close as family — indeed, I feel like everyone here is a common sibling of mine, regardless of our differences.

The oversimplification of the problem being addressed indicates a lack of thought and empathy on Br. John's part. A truly empathetic response would be to say something like, "I understand you have problems with aspects of this community. What can I do to help?" An empathetic response is not to declare, "you feel like shit and it's all my fault, all the fault of the community I made." This response effectively turns the focus onto the person speaking, rather than the person who is having problems. That's how it is for this reader, the one who it was addressed to. Frankly, if I had a problem in a store and a manager's first reaction was to tell me, "You feel like shit and all because of a store I manage," I'd immediately ask to speak to his boss, and speak to this manager no further.

Goken wrote: Again we see the issue with our interactions being text based. No inflection. Rereading the initial quote, it could very easily be read with a sarcastic tone (try reading it like Chandler Bing from Friends :lol: ) but it could just as easily be read with a nice, helpful tone.

I think it would also benefit everyone to ask themselves if the message was meant to be negative or if it could also have been positive. Maybe ask for clarification from the sender or ask another person how they perceived it.

I always say Daffy Duck...

Something I always try to keep in mind....:

Few things are more discouraging than unappreciated sarcasm.

I can't imagine a more proper place for sarcasm than during a very indepth discussion on a touchy subject. :dry: