Voting to ban members

Tempest Nox wrote:

Avalon wrote: There was, in fact, a vote. One that determined permanent ban. Based upon the input of those apprentice and above, determined by those knights and above, and put into effect by the council and the knights advisors.

Forgiveness is one thing. You can forgive someone who has wronged you and never let them back in your life.

But what you're doing is completely ignoring, at the expense of those who were affected before... No. That's not forgiveness. That's deliberately stuffing your head in the sand.

That reeks of someone outside an abusive relationship telling the abused to let the abuser back into their lives. And shame on you for doing so.

But I'm not at all surprised either. Not after what I've seen for the last few years.

Yeah, I’m totally the same as an abusive spouse... and what happened is TOTALLY the same thing as domestic abuse. *Sarcasm* Get over yourself!

I’m not sure where you got your understanding of forgiveness but it’s not an understanding I’m familiar with. Last I checked, to forgive someone means to let their past go. It means to give them a fresh start, not constantly judge them for previous wrongs.

Frankly, I find your understanding of forgiveness to be downright repulsive.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/122763-compassion-ration#340865

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/122763-compassion-ration#340865

I don’t fully understand your response here, though I did read as well as reply to the topic linked.

just inviting ya over

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: just inviting ya over

Isnt that a thread derail. Something famous for debate at this "temple"?

Tempest Nox wrote: I’m not sure where you got your understanding of forgiveness but it’s not an understanding I’m familiar with. Last I checked, to forgive someone means to let their past go. It means to give them a fresh start, not constantly judge them for previous wrongs.

That's not what forgiveness means. That's what forgetting means. There's a reason they're two separate words. As many a wise man has said, "Forgive your enemy, but remember the bastard's name."

Tempest Nox wrote: Frankly, I find your understanding of forgiveness to be downright repulsive.

Luckily for you, your understanding of forgiveness is just that--yours. No one else need subscribe to it, nor do you need to evangelize it.

ren wrote:

Tellahane wrote:

ren wrote: The council only acts through a majority decision by councillors.

So was there a majority vote to unban someone recently or when they just appeared out of nowhere you just left it as was instead of enforcing the previous vote?

There was no council vote to ban mortose the last time, or at least no record of it. We (the council) have shown forgiveness to other members, and I do not understand why the (some) knights cannot show it to her.

That's because the council at the time recused itself and allowed the knights to vote on its behalf, which it was in the vote of the knights that the ban was enacted as a proxy for council, to which correct me if I'm wrong is still then a council decision.

It's not a matter of forgiveness, as steam said more towards forgetfulness, or more importantly integrity.

steamboat28 wrote:
Luckily for you, your understanding of forgiveness is just that--yours. No one else need subscribe to it, nor do you need to evangelize it.

You're right, no one else need subscribe to my understanding of forgiveness. Did I state that they did? No, I stated my opinion, as I'm free to do. Furthermore, do you understand the definition of the term "evangelize"? Here, I'll save you the effort of looking it up:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelize

evangelize verb
evan·​ge·​lize | \ i-ˈvan-jə-ˌlīz \
evangelized; evangelizing
Definition of evangelize
transitive verb

1 : to preach the gospel to
2 : to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb

: to preach the gospel

As for my understanding of forgiveness, I don't understand how you think letting go of the past is the same as forgetting it. It's not. I can forgive someone, yet still remember what I've forgiven them for.

First, it's difficult for me to intentionally forget any particular thing. Second, it's unwise in this context. For example, a person who I've forgiven for wronging me, may wrong me again; they also may not. For me, I look at each situation on a case by case basis. If the person is entering into the same pattern that they were in prior to wronging me, I'll be on my guard and may even ask them why they are acting in this way. Then, I also may just stand by, keeping my concern to myself. Again, it depends.

Tempest Nox wrote: If the person is entering into the same pattern that they were in prior to ...

I wonder if you see what I see. Is the phoenix soaring freely, or is she circling to her fiery doom, trapped by her own persona. For your journal.

Manu wrote:
I wonder if you see what I see. Is the phoenix soaring freely, or is she circling to her fiery doom, trapped by her own persona. For your journal.

I wonder why you wrote what you did above... :blink:

Rather than cryptically responding to my journal (and correct me if I got this wrong), why not get it all out in the open? Unleash your feelings? You clearly have them. Else, keep your snide remarks to yourself.

On another note, personally, I don't go reading people's journals, just to make cryptic comments about how doomed they are for expressing their opinions. To each their own though.

Tempest Nox wrote: Else, keep your snide remarks to yourself.

No fun in that. This is a forum, after all.

Tempest Nox wrote: I don't go reading people's journals, just to make cryptic comments about how doomed they are for expressing their opinions. To each their own though.

Hmmm... I assumed you would see what I saw, given your accute sensitivity. I was cryptic enough though. The fault is mine for not being clear.

I do not believe you are doomed. Why bother feeding a dying bird, crashing to the ground? I am not the kind to cheer someone else's fall.

What I see, is someone who wears her pain as a badge, but neglects that she casts upon herself heavy chains. The many masks you wear? They are designed only as a desguise from yourself.

You claim you are reborn. New. Free. Yet with a little poking, the old persona is evoked, the chains rattle and then pull you back into this defensive position. Why defend what cannot be destroyed?

The persona can be destroyed, because it relies on perception. You, on the other hand, are powerful and indestructable.

Be mindful of those old chains, my friend.