Voting to ban members

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29 Jul 2019 19:58 #340703 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Voting to ban members

Tellahane wrote:

Tempest Nox wrote:

ren wrote: The result of a vote (to ban) literally is 'popular opinion'. Discussing opinion is on-topic.


Which is exactly why I don't personally support banning people based on popular vote. Mob rule makes terrible government.


Can you point me to a successful government system that is not based off popular vote?


The popular vote is what makes them successful. The Nazis loved a good referendum.

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30 Jul 2019 13:29 #340729 by Carlos.Martinez3
So... this is what we talk about now hu? Interesting ...

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31 Jul 2019 01:31 #340747 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Voting to ban members
It actually is. Would you care to join us, or just continue to judge?

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31 Jul 2019 13:53 #340755 by Carlos.Martinez3
Not judging at all just ... noticing

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31 Jul 2019 14:47 #340758 by lightscribe
Replied by lightscribe on topic Voting to ban members

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not judging at all just ... noticing


I obviously had some issues with this thread, as you can see above. However, I fail to see a problem with the current discourse. It's a debate about politics and morality. How is that different from many of the conversations going on in other areas of the forum?

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31 Jul 2019 14:51 - 31 Jul 2019 14:51 #340759 by Phoenix Vidensia

lightscribe wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not judging at all just ... noticing


I obviously had some issues with this thread, as you can see above. However, I fail to see a problem with the current discourse. It's a debate about politics and morality. How is that different from many of the conversations going on in other areas of the forum?


Let’s look at banning like a jail sentence and permanent banning as the death penalty. Neither should be decided by “the people” as a whole but instead by a neutral body such as a jury, and carried out by those given authority in this area of the forum.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 31 Jul 2019 14:51 by Phoenix Vidensia.

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31 Jul 2019 16:56 #340760 by Carlos.Martinez3

Tempest Nox wrote:

lightscribe wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not judging at all just ... noticing


I obviously had some issues with this thread, as you can see above. However, I fail to see a problem with the current discourse. It's a debate about politics and morality. How is that different from many of the conversations going on in other areas of the forum?


Let’s look at banning like a jail sentence and permanent banning as the death penalty. Neither should be decided by “the people” as a whole but instead by a neutral body such as a jury, and carried out by those given authority in this area of the forum.

That’s what the councils for lol
This ban had the council asking for the Knights advice.

Every ban we get a slew of a few of the same - we don’t like it - it’s not right - why didn’t you tell me - it’s not fair - justice !!! You know , people stuff. We are not about removing any one against anything. Not what we do here. It happens. As many of us know. Ya Kinna hope over time we get better.
After years we let go of offenses ... u know - forgiveness and compassion and such. Who knows ... I’ve felt more comfortable at a “enemy’s” table eating lunch than next to some folk who claim to be this label or that. Truth be told. Any how - no need in beating this dead horse for me.
Not every vote to ban will be given to the knights or the collective to advise.

Any how ... back to our regular scheduled program



Game on! Just a little smile ! No harm intended - promise

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31 Jul 2019 17:14 #340761 by Phoenix Vidensia
Having been banned from plenty of places, often more than once, I speak from experience. It’s rarely just. I’ve been banned, simply for stating an unpopular opinion. I’ve been banned for things, blown out of proportion. I’ve also been banned for fair reasons. Here? Definitely a fair reason. Elsewhere? Not generally.

The thing is, people change. I tend to be against lifetime bans for this reason, though I understand the need to protect a community.

... Meh ...
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31 Jul 2019 20:32 - 31 Jul 2019 20:41 #340763 by Nakis
Replied by Nakis on topic Voting to ban members
I generally view this as a perpetual conversation. This type of conversation allows us to gauge, view, and course correct as time goes on. What was acceptable 10 years ago may not be the same today as we grow and improve. The more conversations we have, the easier it is to come to conclusions that better represent the community and not a vocal few. The vocal few come out -when- the ban happens as opposed to during these types of chats.

The organization needs to have these kinds of conversations to keep on course and continue to do information sampling like this. When the time comes for a ban, there will always be people unhappy, but at the same time the very nature of a ban is negative. No one likes it, everyone has an opinion, and everyone is a lawyer or knows one.

I'd rather people's opinions be known than to discourage this kind of conversation, this is an excellent venue for leadership and communication both up and down the chain so everyone knows where people are. Better to know now than wonder why people are upset when it comes to pass.

As far as I am concerned, the use of a ban or suspension is administrative in function and not a gauge of someone's person. A suspension to allow for time to think about corrective measures or an enforced time out, a ban for a removal from the group. Both should allow for appeals, but there should be good reasons behind each. What I mean by administrative in function is that the organization is manipulating the group's population to prevent the group from being harmed as opposed to saying Bobby is a butthead. To spin it another way: It's less "Your views suck, go away" and more "The way you present your views is designed to needlessly antagonize others, please stop." One is a personal opinion, one is an administrative function designed to protect the group. So long as the focus remains on someone's impact on the group and how they operate within the organization, I believe we can usually be above petty revenge.

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Last edit: 31 Jul 2019 20:41 by Nakis.
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01 Aug 2019 00:19 #340768 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Voting to ban members

Tempest Nox wrote:

lightscribe wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not judging at all just ... noticing


I obviously had some issues with this thread, as you can see above. However, I fail to see a problem with the current discourse. It's a debate about politics and morality. How is that different from many of the conversations going on in other areas of the forum?


Let’s look at banning like a jail sentence and permanent banning as the death penalty. Neither should be decided by “the people” as a whole but instead by a neutral body such as a jury, and carried out by those given authority in this area of the forum.


I challenge you to tell an inmate on death row that their sentence is like getting banned from Totjo.

A ban is permanent until the council overrules it.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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