Changes to the Simple Oath

No, we didnt define a Jedi like that...

We defined a TOTJO Jedi like that...

Just being difficult, lol...

Totjo doesn't define any kind of jedi other than totjo jedi

And the current Oath just says "pledges allegiance to", it doesnt say "believe", or "understand"...

Good point, pledging allegiance is more than mere belief or understanding.

So, we provide a way for anyone to call themselves Jedi, legally...

Totjo doesn't provide anything legal to anyone, except perhaps marriage services, though I have yet to witness that.

This has never been something we ask... Never...

That's what we promise through the oath. How anyone can say "I promise to do my utmost to uphold the Jedi teachings, and to live a life as is worthy of a Jedi" without implying that they have studied or will study some aspect of the way perplexes me to say the least.

ren wrote:

And the current Oath just says "pledges allegiance to", it doesnt say "believe", or "understand"...

Good point, pledging allegiance is more than mere belief or understanding.

So, are you saying they should do even more?

Pledging, on day one in most cases, to something they don't comprehend?

Most often, I feel the are not reading "terms and conditions" and just looking to get to the good stuff, membership... :lol:....

So, we provide a way for anyone to call themselves Jedi, legally...

Totjo doesn't provide anything legal to anyone, except perhaps marriage services, though I have yet to witness that.

IN MY OPINION....

TOTJO, by being a legal organization, allows me to call myself a member of a legal, Jedi Organization....

I can legally call myself a Jedi...

Our legal counsel may say otherwise... lol...

This has never been something we ask... Never...

That's what we promise through the oath. How anyone can say "I promise to do my utmost to uphold the Jedi teachings, and to live a life as is worthy of a Jedi" without implying that they have studied or will study some aspect of the way perplexes me to say the least.

Its about perception...

We ask that they promise to uphold something they don't understand, because most do it on day one....

You assign the value of how you interpret that combination of words..

But, at the definition of the words, it reads that a person upholds the Jedi teachings, and live the Jedi life.... Nothing about "study" or "understanding/comprehension"...

I've noticed that new members are still posting oaths for membership.. should we have a notice or something obvious to say they are no longer required until after the IP?

Having just finished the IP, I can see how changing the Oath is a good thing. When I first joined, I had an understanding of what a Jedi is, based on my own experiences and not what the Temple's understanding is. As I progressed through the IP, I began to understand what the Temple was all about, and what Jediism, as defined by the Temple meant. That is why when I completed the IP, I petitioned to have my name changed. When I joined I took the name Kaverael because it was the name I used in several Star Wars games; it was my Star Wars persona. When I completed the IP, I felt that it was time to put the Star Wars persona behind me and move forward as the real me - Rick D, because now I had a fuller understanding of what the Temple stood for, and I am now ready to move forward in my Jedi journey, and TOTJO is the way for me to do that.

As Ren has talked about, I took the oath at the beginning because it was a box that needed to be checked to move forward. Now that I have finished the IP, I think that this is the correct place to put the oath, because now I know what the Temple stands for, and the journey they are asking me to take, and am ready to profess my allegiance to the Temple with a clear conscious.

Cliff note version: put the Oath after the IP, as part of the transition to Initiate (the term initiate implies some sort of initiation after all).

Edan wrote: I've noticed that new members are still posting oaths for membership.. should we have a notice or something obvious to say they are no longer required until after the IP?

This is prpbably my fault, I have not got proper computer access, but will have access tomorrow so will work on sorting out a rather sizeable backlog of things that need to be done. This includes changing all the Simple Oath stuff to reflect the change

Will the Simple Oath be reworded to reflect the change?

Rick D wrote: Will the Simple Oath be reworded to reflect the change?

No, Council is running a couple of ideas through our collective heads but the conversation sort of petered out before the end of the year and it wasn't implemented in time. The wording will likely change soon however.

Here is a list of places that have been edited to reflect this change, but if someone sees a reference somewhere to taking the Oath when one just joins please let me or someone else know so we can get it changed

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/ordermembership
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/40-information/2107-youth-faq
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/40-information/2078-the-oaths-of-temple-of-the-jedi-order
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#Oath
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#WhatisJediism
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#HowtoJoin
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#TakingTime
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#RankhasnotChanged
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq/34-policies/2039-laws-relating-to-the-definition-of-rank-and-status

There was also some miscellaneous link boldness and a few other things that I spotted while doing this.

Makes sense to me. I think it is definitely a good decision.

I'm on my phone so I can't link it, but the section with the actual oath starts out with initiate but still has references to taking the when you join the order.