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"Jedi Believe" was Tied....
It wasn't long that we actually saw a discussion about whether or not someone can be a Jedi of ToTJO if they didn't agree with something written into the "Jedi Believe" section. As a result the place it has in ToTJO has been fairly well established in the minds of participants. So let's open up the floor-
What do you think needs to be changed/added/reworded in this section of the Doctrine?
For simplicity's sake, I'll repost it below so we don't have to run back and forth between tabs (not intended to be spam )
Doctrine wrote: In the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it.
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty.
In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice.
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.
In the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.
In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.
In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures.
In the separation of religion and government and the freedoms of speech, association and expression.
"In a society governed by laws grounded in reason, compassion, and equality, not in fear or prejudice."
(in case anyone was wondering, I voted to leave this one as is , this just has been a question I've had several times over the years ^^)
Even between items 3, 5, and 6, I wouldn't be surprised if the temple was in favor of them as currently formulated (and definitely with a caveat)
I'm interested in hearing from people with stronger opinions
Knights Secretary's Secretary
TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
My concerns are mainly with items 2 and 5.
Item 2 identifies the death penalty as something Jedi are against. However, some do support the death penalty. While we should not look to the fiction for everything, it is noteworthy that the Jedi of the fiction were not above delivering the death penalty. Vader only stopped Windu in episode 3 because he was going to kill Palpatine without a fair trial, and because Palpatine was unarmed. When he kills Dooku, his only reason for it being against the "Jedi way" is because Dooku was unarmed.
Likewise, many Jedi are soldiers, veterans, or law enforcement. They may have unfortunately had to take a person's life at some point, either in self-defense or on orders they could not refuse, and that is ostensibly an application of a kind of death penalty. Does this item make these Jedi appear less legitimate as Jedi? If so, is that justified?
I am a pacifist, and I oppose the death penalty. But I would not say someone else is not a Jedi because they support the death penalty.
Item 5 implies moral relativism. But if moral relativism is accepted, how are we to take the value-statements in the other items? Words like "positive influence" in the item immediately following item 5, for example, is clearly a value-statement of something I would consider moral or ethical.
Well, I have seen plenty Jedi say that they believe in that, but what this "that" is appears to be rather inconsistent between them at best. What exactly is this "the Force", other than a vague label that can mean anything and therefore means nothing? What does it mean to say that Jedi, or even a noteworthy portion of them "believe in" it?
Doctrine wrote: [Jedi believe] In the Force, ...
This also I don't understand. "Inherent worth" always sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. Again, I'll hear people pay lip service to believing in it, but I have yet to meet one who can, when pressed, coherently articulate what on earth they mean by it.
... and in the inherent worth of all life within it.
For me, on balance, those who are already a constituent of this place deserve priority in what it is defined as, vs trying to make it somehow more appealing or different to those who are not yet invested.
Given the drama inherent in any change to it, the split vote and the fact to be here you had to be OK enough with that section to not be put off joining... it seems logical and fairer to those who are already invested in this place to keep it as it is.
All of them have a place for a paragraph answer (I'm not sure what the character limit for that is, but it was the biggest box I could give you).
Please take the time to comment on each one. If you think something should be taken out completely write "Delete" if you believe something should remain unchanged write "Retain", and if you believe it can be reworded write "Reword". Please make sure these are at the beginning of any explanations you post. If you want something rewritten, we request a viable option be given in its place.