Critiquing the boarder wall for ( Br John . )

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28 Jan 2020 13:14 #348966 by Malicious
Oh ya immigrants can cut through a steel wall over a feet thick that sounds very capable of them . More drones is a good idea but still very costly and has it's down sides . The drones can be shot down or EMPs could be used . The drones can even be hacked ,heck if you shine a high powered Lazer at one it won't see anything . The wall is meant for corralling migrants to fixed points so they don't slip through the cracks , it's a start . Heck it would be better than spending 200+ billion on the illegal immigrants .

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28 Jan 2020 13:26 #348967 by ZealotX
And just in case it wasn't clear.

when I said walls slowed down invaders, I mean they slowed down armies so that they could shoot or kill them as they entered. This only goes for people attacking in large numbers.



It should also be obvious that castle walls weren't just designed to keep out invaders but archers' arrows, while giving the castle's archers higher ground so they could shoot farther than the enemy.



We also know that armies developed weapons and tactics to get over walls. One of them was essentially a structure that blocked arrows while they positioned it next to the wall, allowing the soldiers inside to simply cross over to the top. Of course the easiest way over the border wall just depends on where you want to cross. You could cut through it, tunnel under it, or you could just bring a ladder or two and lay whatever you want over top of the fence. Even if its electrified you can simply insulate the ladder with rubber.



A wall is truly weak and ineffective. It's only because Trump said it that his supporters think its a great idea.

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28 Jan 2020 13:35 #348968 by ZealotX

Malicious wrote: Oh ya immigrants can cut through a steel wall over a feet thick that sounds very capable of them . More drones is a good idea but still very costly and has it's down sides . The drones can be shot down or EMPs could be used . The drones can even be hacked ,heck if you shine a high powered Lazer at one it won't see anything . The wall is meant for corralling migrants to fixed points so they don't slip through the cracks , it's a start . Heck it would be better than spending 200+ billion on the illegal immigrants .


um... how exactly would a wall corral anyone to fixed points? Explain that to us. We're not talking about your neighbors fence where you have to ask your neighbor so you can get the ball that landed in his yard. This is miles of wall that has ALREADY been cut through by smugglers within minutes using a $100 saw from Home Depot. Watch this video of Trump saying "you can cut through any wall" after reports of people cutting through his new border wall. Please watch.

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28 Jan 2020 13:48 #348969 by Malicious
The wall isn't there to stop them but to slow them down , if they cut through it or climb over it then it's slowing them down and allowing for a quicker response from the boarder patrol . By corralling them I mean if they don't have the ( tools ) to get past it then they will try to go to a spot where there is no wall aka corralling them to a spot that will be monitored better . Ya they could cut through it and we can repair it . They can use latters but it will slow them down allowing for them to be caught . Heck I vote for a type of DMZ like the one separating north and south Korea . We used similar tactics when gaining territory from Mexico , send people in then take the land . And no I'm not necessarily saying that is what's going on either . We need to make there countries better not make ours worse . We build up countries economies around the world but for what oil or strategical advantage ? We need to help there countries not for what we will get but to help there people .

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01 Feb 2020 20:55 #349131 by KerouacsGhost
The wall is antithetical to the doctrine of this order.

Jedi Believe

In the Force, and in the inherent worth of ALL LIFE within it.
In the SANCTITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON. WE OPPOSE the use of torture and CRUEL or UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, INCLUDING the DEATH penalty.
In a society governed by laws GROUNDED IN REASON and COMPASSION, NOT in FEAR or PREJUDICE
In a society that DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and NATIONAL ORIGIN.
In the ETHIC OF RECIPROCITY , and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.
In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.
In the importance of freedom of conscience and SELF-DETERMINATION within religious,POLITICAL AND OTHER STRUCTURES.
In the separation of religion and government and the FREEDOMs OF speech, ASSOCIATION and expression.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/doctrine-of-the-order#JediBelieve
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01 Feb 2020 21:52 #349132 by JamesSand

The wall is antithetical to the doctrine of this order.


It seems to me that the doctrine (possibly carefully and intentionally) does not say much about national interests. The "face value" purpose of "The Wall" is to safeguard the USA's people against all sorts of boogey men.

Whether that is what it actually achieves notwithstanding, I don't know that efforts taken to protect a particular group of people is, by default, against the doctrine.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



Anyway, since you don't discriminate, can I have fifty bucks?

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01 Feb 2020 22:43 #349136 by Br. John
Everyone responding probably has good intentions. Some don't understand clearly what the discussion is about and what it's not.

An example would be debating the most humane way to execute someone. I'm against the Death Penalty. That's not the issue. Assuming someone is going to be executed, what is the most humane way to do so?

With me so far?

What we are discussing here is: assuming the goal is to keep someone from illegally (unauthorized) crossing the Mexico US border, a wall along the [entire] border is the best way. It's not if someone should be allowed to cross the border which is a different discussion.

Founder of The Order

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01 Feb 2020 23:49 - 01 Feb 2020 23:53 #349141 by KerouacsGhost
james sand

You're clearly wrong. Unless you don't consider national interests to be part of "society" of which the doctrine speaks directly.
Last edit: 01 Feb 2020 23:53 by KerouacsGhost.

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01 Feb 2020 23:52 - 01 Feb 2020 23:56 #349142 by KerouacsGhost
Br John
Your rank and slippery language makes it very clear that you know better than to promote values that go against the doctrine of the Jedi order.

" to keep someone from illegally (unauthorized) crossing the Mexico US border"

is in direct conflict with

"...a society that DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF ... ethnicity and NATIONAL ORIGIN."
Last edit: 01 Feb 2020 23:56 by KerouacsGhost.

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02 Feb 2020 00:24 #349148 by Br. John

KerouacsGhost wrote: Br John
Your rank and slippery language makes it very clear that you know better than to promote values that go against the doctrine of the Jedi order.

" to keep someone from illegally (unauthorized) crossing the Mexico US border"

is in direct conflict with

"...a society that DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF ... ethnicity and NATIONAL ORIGIN."


That is not, is not, what we are discussing. I'm not for the Death Penalty either, but if someone is going to be executed I can discuss the most humane way to do it.

What do you not understand about "Assuming the goal is to keep people from crossing a border ...." ?

It is not, is not, about if we should let them cross the border.

Founder of The Order

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