Critiquing the boarder wall for ( Br John . )

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25 Jan 2020 02:50 #348795 by Malicious
Why a wall across the boarder is a good idea ( or at least a good starting point ) so Br john wanted me to explain why the boarder wall was such a good idea so here it is . The southern border brings immigrants illegal and legal , drugs , and human trafficking . If we was able to make a large enough fence/wall to cover the entire boarder then it would be possible to stop all this illegal activity . There would be no drugs coming across the southern border , no illegal immigration , no child sex trafficking ect . But they can still go through the gulf of Mexico or by water . Some cartels use tunnels but the boarder patrol uses ground penetrating radar and when they find the tunnels they collapse them . The small fence that was once there could be easily crossed but the large wall is difficult even almost impossible to cross .

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25 Jan 2020 05:25 #348797 by Carlos.Martinez3
I was born and raised Texan. Defiantly on the wrong side of the tracks. I grew up on the street with gangs and drugs and things like that as second nature. My dad told me one time a lock was made to keep the honest - honest. If a thief wants something - they will find a way.
To me : adding changes can change the game. I know the “cartel“ near the border mentality - they will find a way. You’ll have to figure out new methods in a few years. Sad but that’s the truth. There’s a road that exist that the world knows if you cross it you pay the toll and sneak into America. It’s been there for years. Fences won’t keep things like that out. Eventually something new will be needed. It’s a start - I never understood why we don’t get smarter. I guess this may be the smartest thing for now.

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25 Jan 2020 05:49 #348799 by Rex
So Malicious, what's the problem as you see it and your return on investment analysis? Also what considerations have you made for social costs and other "incalculables"
What makes this certain border different from other borders? Get into specifics beyond the basic talking points

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25 Jan 2020 15:25 - 25 Jan 2020 15:30 #348809 by Malicious
Well the cost would be for the entire boarder wall is about 10 billion . Mit and Yale did a study on the illegal immigration problem . With the help of the boarder patrol and a few other government agencies they figured out generally how many illegal immigrants Crossed illegally and how much they are costing us . There was over 1 million illegal immigrants that crossed in 2019 . The total amount of money used to house , feed , and transport these illegal immigrants and the other 30+ million illegal immigrants is around 260+ billion dollars . This money includes schooling for there children , healthcare and them not paying taxes . Now the question what to do with them , when we give them court date little to none show up . So do we export send them back to there original country ? Do we say screw it and make them citizens without consequence for breaking our laws , and them make the rest coming in go back or wait a few months in Mexico until there court dates and citizen test ? These are hard questions to answer but if we didn't have these illegal immigrants here that would free up nearly 300 billion dollars of tax payers money that the government can use to fight this problem . If an illegal immigrant kills someone most likely they will get away with it , they can flee back to Mexico or hide from the authority . No one knows there true names or where there from so they can't really be tracked like us the American people . They don't pay taxes , take jobs from us working for far less money and driving wages down . They , not all but some rape , kill , or sell drugs . Some come here for the American dream but the American dream is dying . They don't get the impact that they are having here because they are illegal immigrants and how much they are costing the tax payers as well as the government . America is getting shittier and shittier , the illegal immigrants are just making it worse . Now I'm not a racist my grandmother is from Mexico and she came here legally , I applaud legal immigration but illegal immigration is a ( cancer ) we must deal with . When I figure out the site ( a .org one ) I will post the findings from Yale and mit .

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2020 15:30 by Malicious.

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25 Jan 2020 17:21 - 25 Jan 2020 17:23 #348813 by Br. John
When we say "illegal immigrant" do we mean someone who entered the US illegally or do we mean anyone who is in the US illegally?

The first thing that comes to mind for many people is someone who illegally crossed a border. True, such an one is an illegal immigrant. That's not the definition of an illegal immigrant though.

illegal immigrant
noun [ C ]
UK /ɪˌliː.ɡəl ˈɪm.ɪ.ɡrənt/ US /ɪˌliː.ɡəl ˈɪm.ɪ.ɡrənt/
(US also illegal alien)

someone who lives or works in another country when they do not have the legal right to do this
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/e...sh/illegal-immigrant

When's the last time you heard someone concerned with illegal immigration addressing this?

When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave.

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-d...hat-the-data-tell-us

And see:

Most illegal immigration doesn’t come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build his wall

In 2015 over 43,000 Cubans illegally immigrated to the U.S. - about 20% as many as from Mexico. The cost of a wall is rather dramatically high given the weighted number of illegal immigrants from other countries.

Illegal immigrants are not "stealing" more jobs every year. Since 2006, the number of illegal immigrants working in the U.S. has stabilized at about 8 million. All the new job growth over the last decade has gone to legitimate American workers or legal immigrants working with proper papers. Illegal immigration is not the reason some Americans do not have jobs, and blaming illegal immigrants is a ruse for people who simply don't want to work - or refuse to upgrade their skills to make themselves employable.

Most border crossing illegal immigrants today are minors from Central America simply trying to stay alive. They aren't Mexican criminals, stealing jobs, or creating a crime spree. They are mostly starving.


[T]he state with the longest Mexican border is Texas - and of its 38 congressional members (36 in Congress, 2 in the Senate and 25 Republican) not one (not one) supports building the wall. The district with the longest border (800 miles) is represented by Republican Will Hurd, who said "building a wall is the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Why President Trump's Border Wall Is An Example Of Bad Leadership
www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2017/01...ership/#64b11e9a26cf

In separate posts I'll address illegal drugs and sex trafficking.

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2020 17:23 by Br. John.
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25 Jan 2020 19:22 #348816 by OB1Shinobi
Something that would be cheaper, faster, and probably more effective than a solid wall would be just a line of motion sensing and heat detecting cameras, every so many miles. We wouldnt even need anyone to watch the footage, an AlGorerhythm could be written to signal an alert when human movement is detected.

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25 Jan 2020 19:31 #348817 by Rex
So let's break down your 30m+ illegal immigrants stat:
How many of them are traditional "border hoppers" vs not (who wouldn't be affected by a wall)?
How does a wall influence the influx of immigrants and the costs they incur?
How do those costs compare to other possible solutions?
What are the benefits of people currently living illegally in the US? How would those be impinged by a wall?

I think the situation isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be. What makes illegal immigrants from the south more damaging to the US, such that it requires a wall while the damn Canadians expats include Justin Bieber, Ted Cruz, and Tommy Chong.

No one's called you a racist, so whipping out the "I'm vaguely hispanic" card seems premature.

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25 Jan 2020 20:28 #348820 by Carlos.Martinez3
This is just my solder thinking - but why build a wall when you can dig a trench and monitor it - way more simple to look down than up and over. Strategically speaking

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25 Jan 2020 21:05 - 25 Jan 2020 21:12 #348824 by Br. John

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: This is just my solder thinking - but why build a wall when you can dig a trench and monitor it - way more simple to look down than up and over. Strategically speaking


Sweet Baby Jesus! (I should rightully be much more familiar with Texas after being here sixty years so I'm not insulting you ... it's just ... ). Look at a terrain map. We have a trench. It's called The Rio Grande River.

[T]he longest contiguous unfenced stretch of border — more than 600 miles total — is in the middle of Texas. There's no major city here on either side of the border.

Look at www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/ (Interactive Border Map)

Almost nobody tries to cross there because they'd have to go hundreds of miles through the desert, and mountains, and cross The Rio Grande. That's why there's not even a simple fence there now.

And see www.usatoday.com/border-wall/

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2020 21:12 by Br. John.
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25 Jan 2020 21:54 - 25 Jan 2020 21:54 #348826 by Br. John
Before I address the drug smuggling and sex trafficking issues, how about the environment? I've tried to use as few reputable sources as possible on each issue but I have plenty more if anyone is interested.

Trump’s Border Wall Is an Environmental Disaster ~ www.thenation.com/article/environment/tr...border-wall-climate/

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2020 21:54 by Br. John.
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