My belief system

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20 Apr 2019 22:42 #337474 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic My belief system

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


In your opinion...
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21 Apr 2019 01:03 #337478 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


In your opinion...



Have you been partaking of the 420 celebration?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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21 Apr 2019 01:03 #337479 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic My belief system

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


In your opinion...



Have you been partaking of the 420 celebration?


Nope don't drink don't smoke.
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21 Apr 2019 01:09 #337480 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


In your opinion...



Have you been partaking of the 420 celebration?


Nope don't drink don't smoke.



Ahh, well maybe you should try it sometime. In any case I see no relevance to your comment other than as a goad of my thoughts. Especially since I stated in my comments that "I feel". So what purpose is there to your comment in reply?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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21 Apr 2019 03:16 #337481 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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21 Apr 2019 07:34 #337484 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic My belief system

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


In your opinion...

I'm not sure I can agree with what Kyrin said there either on an instinctive level. And I too have little in terms of substantive criticism against it.

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21 Apr 2019 17:17 - 21 Apr 2019 17:22 #337497 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system

Gisteron wrote: I'm not sure I can agree with what Kyrin said there either on an instinctive level. And I too have little in terms of substantive criticism against it.


Curious, why do you feel that? I would say that possessing a belief is accepting whatever that belief is as truth. This is not something we have control over. We cant choose what to believe. For instance one just cant decide to believe in God if they truly dont believe. And if one is truly convinced God exists that was not a choice either. However we can also convince ourselves we believe through things like faith. But this is an unreasonable means to arrive at that belief because it can be used to believe anything. So it must be abandoned and replaced with something that is reliable. I would say that most reliable mechanism is sceptical evaluation of evidence. And following evidence to truth is not a single act, it is a process that modifies us (our belief) over time. This is the only reliable means I can see to live a valid life. To shun this and stubbornly refuse to follow the process by ignoring evidence so one can continue to hold onto their unfounded belief (and its inseparable assertion of also unfounded truth) comes out of fear to abandon something that makes one feel safe or special in some way and this reduces one to a fantasy role player and not one that values actual truth.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 21 Apr 2019 17:22 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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21 Apr 2019 17:41 - 21 Apr 2019 17:43 #337498 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic My belief system
I'm not sure I have or can articulate a case to that effect, but I think there may be a distinction worth making between thinking that a thing be true and being willing to assert that it is. Though often enough I do too make that mistake, I'm not comfortable with asserting things I am unwilling or unable to defend or at least somehow substantiate. It seems entirely possible to me that someone might believe something and yet avoid asserting it, say, if they understand that though they have been presented reason enough to convince them, they couldn't make enough of a case for it to anyone else.
Now one may argue that if one is unable to make a case before any third party, one may well for that reason not be rationally justified in believing the thing in question oneself. I am sympathetic to that position but I do not find it trivial. My point is that - barring arguments of this nature - it is by no means obvious that to think of a thing as true or accurate necessarily implies asserting it as such also.

Last edit: 21 Apr 2019 17:43 by Gisteron.
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21 Apr 2019 18:06 - 21 Apr 2019 18:07 #337499 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system
So you are speaking of professing the belief verbally. What I'm really talking about is not only that, as in the case of this thread, but also a self assertion. So when it comes to the OP, that was a verbal (written) confession of belief. To believe something and to say you believe it is an assertion of its truth. However one can also believe something and never confess that belief except to ones self. This is also an assertion of truth although one carried out internally within the ones psyche. Would you agree? I see no means to seperate the belief in something from that beliefs assertion it is true in one of these forms.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 21 Apr 2019 18:07 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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22 Apr 2019 22:38 - 22 Apr 2019 22:57 #337527 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic My belief system

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two...


Some interesting PM conversations to come out of this thread but I think this statement here is the defining quality that defines the true Jedi from the role player. As a Ranger it seems obvious to me that having a belief is asserting it as a truth, but many here seem to be able to divorce these two concepts. This allows them to exist in a fantasy existence and ignore the reality of their situation. Its a dangerous place to dwell because it encourages delusion and abandons the paramount skill of critical thinking that I feel all true jedi should embrace as thee highest form of interaction with our reality in a never ending search for truth.


Seems your not understanding any of my explanatory replies, which address this point. Again, it depends what the belief is representing. I'll take another leap since I'm so easily understood... and go straight to suggesting if any truth is misrepresented beyond its application then its likely to always become unstuck from the very parameters which define it as existing in anything beyond 'concept'. That is surely alone no reason to attack the 'mechanism' of belief, and the potential we have to generate positive outcomes from engineering it in effective ways!!?? That would be the very definition of mundane wouldn't it? Seemingly only done to stay safely anchored in the safe harbor of superficial semantic sidelines. I'd wager a genuine seeker will understand what I mean because they will have sought it out and have personal insight and experiences to reflect upon it... while someone who has not will be more likely to suffer being stuck in the closed set of their subjective experience of reality and any limitations they may have on their imaginations about its potential.

I'd rather suggest to attack it when its shown to be false in function rather then appearance. Though it should not be needed to attack anything because it would be self evident in terms understood by all parties at that point... but that requires an exploration of it and its application - to define how its meant to exist as truth. Non-judgmental curiosity and the other skills within intellectual humility. For that what I'm calling truth is not whether it represents objective reality in its most proper PC designator necessarily, but rather what its representations are trying to achieve. Most normally this is objective existence, but it need not be limited to that IMO. Otherwise its like just trying to force everyone to discuss science and history... which are great topics... but its not anyone place to force those things.

Here is an experiment to highlite my point. Watch a movie with the sound down so low you cannot hear the words, and invent a new dialog from the acting alone as you watch it. It's not the truth, what you believe to be happening, but it can be more fun then the actual script.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 22 Apr 2019 22:57 by Adder.
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