What is the Force MkII

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15 Mar 2019 10:38 #335687 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic What is the Force MkII
It isn't so much contentious as unsubstantiated. I agree, all instances of life by our definition happen (so far) to be not just material in general but carbon-based in particular. However, none of the seven criteria require either of that. It is perfectly conceivable to construct an object in a simulated environment that would - within its environment - show all of the same seven characteristics, thereby be rightly called living as we know it. While a supply and scarcity of some kind of energy score would be necessary for it to meaningfully "metabolize", "maintain homoeostasis", "reproduce" and exhibit other such characteristics, this very specific notion of something star-like where products of yet older fundamental-particle-like things get forged into yet bigger structures with different attributes building effectively something very much like chemistry I'm not convinced is necessary for that. The paper I linked showed that it takes very little indeed to generate things a lot like life. The cells their simulation produced were born spontaneously, lived for a large number of cycles, ate particles from outside to grow or starved and shrunk, produced spores, divided into daughter cells, or died altogether, saturating the environment with particles free to condense into new spores and cells. They didn't respond to stimuli, nor did they inherit their traits to their daughter cells, but then it was after all only one particle type and only one motion rule. I'm not convinced that it is necessary to have all of the forces and an entire periodic table to get life as we know it proper, and I have no idea what it takes for it to become emotional either. To say that this exact universe we find ourselves in is conducive to it may well be a trivial statement in that we have no idea what it takes to have life and what examples we have of a universe without any may be contested as examples of universes to begin with.

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15 Mar 2019 15:21 #335697 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Adder wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: The difference then between a Jedi and non-Jedi IMO is that Jedi just don't suppose to fill in the gaps of understanding, but instead presuppose and refine through that same process of data, hypothesis and test that you talk about....



This right here is your basic failing. How can you make a presupposition about something you know nothing about and then enact data processing that only leads you do that conclusion? This is wrong and i don't care if your scientifically minded or not, this is not the way to truly learn anything about reality, subjective or objective.


About what though, are you still thinking I'm talking about measuring objective reality? Because if you stay in your own argument unrelated to mine then you'll be able to defend it from no-one for as long as you like.... but it will remain unrelated to my post. I'm talking about the process of orientating thought within the experience of awareness. It's the same mechanism you mention but connected to the problems of working without having access to the bigger picture - one which we both cannot know because the Force is defined as such but also because our sensors are limited and filtered anyway.


No, I think you are missing my point. I understand you are speaking about subjective reality, i.e. personal experience. This is not a category error on my part. What I am saying is that no matter what it is you are exploring you should not presuppose any attributes about it. Of course we can never know absolute truth, that is a thing we are incapable of seeing because of your example of "limited and filtered sensors". But we can make some basic presuppositions that are not contingent on conclusions of attributes. Namely that reality exists as we perceive it and that we can learn something about that reality. This does not matter whether subjective or objective, both are reality. What the pursuit then becomes is one of discovering objective realities attributes and then aligning our subjective reality as closely to that as possible. This is the process of the pursuit of truth. In either exploration, subjective or objective you cant just decide a conclusion and then work to that conclusion because it bypasses the mechanisms required to accurately decipher your search. That is what I am saying.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
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16 Mar 2019 05:29 - 16 Mar 2019 05:34 #335738 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic What is the Force MkII
Ah yes, well I'm talking about the Force (or at least our interaction with it), which is not wholly dependent on aligning to objective reality to serve as truth. It's about engineering a more effective subjective experience.... which also of course happens to include aligning with objective reality, but is not entirely about it.

But we each might have different takes on what the Force is, so I'm only explaining mine since you asked B)

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Last edit: 16 Mar 2019 05:34 by Adder.

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16 Mar 2019 07:25 #335743 by Kyrin Wyldstar
And just as I may touch the tail and you the trunk, why do you feel you have the wisdom to declair a snake and dismiss my rope? I must ask you, what are you missing?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
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17 Mar 2019 07:15 #335757 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic What is the Force MkII
Is that to me Kyrin, as it seems unrelated.... ?

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17 Mar 2019 18:53 #335772 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Adder wrote: Is that to me Kyrin, as it seems unrelated.... ?



Yes it was. Sorry.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

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