Why do people here feel unimportant?

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Edan wrote: Council transparency is something I have been asking for for ages and is one thing I believe that would help, in fact, it is probably the primary solution.

what does Council transparency mean?

Or, what is it that is felt we're not being transparent about?

Perhaps a new thread is required for this?


My thoughts? (Just talking....musing...)

* A list of active/current Council Discussions
* A list of Pending Council Discussions
* A list of Council Active Votes
* An updated thread of Council Changes/Edits to public based documents

At least...these are things I would apply at my group Not perfect...but maybe useful?

seems to me a large number of complaint are repeated because no one knows its being "Discussed" so it goes 'ring around the rosie'

Wescli Wardest wrote: If anyone ever wanted to know what we were discussing all they would have to do is ask.

To me, transparency means being pro-active. I don't think we should have to ask, necessarily.

Maybe there could be a "Summary of Last Council Meeting" type thread. A councilor or the secretary or someone like that could update it with that kind of information. What was discussed, what got voted on, things like that. No one has to mention names for those sorts of things. I don't think that would bother anyone. And I, personally, wouldn't want to read through the "minutes" in their entirety.

First, Council is just a forum like any other and people weigh in when they can. So, sometimes things take a LONG time. And there may be several things being discussed at once.
That said, let me ask another set of questions…

How would a list of currently discussed topics, help the membership on their path?
Does it add to the lessons or help members become better/more Jedi?
Why would knowing what was being discussed make people feel more important?

And, like I said earlier, a lot of times we do ask for outside opinions. In the Knight’s forums.

Announcing changes that have been decided is not an unreasonable request. We have a Council Secretary and that could be added to his duties. So guess what topic will be discussed in Council…

As for votes, unless it is a straw vote, we try to keep them anonymous. So unless you asked the Councilor how they voted, we’ll never know.

So, to keep things on track, how would transparency in the Council help anyone with their studies, be a better Jedi or feel more important?

Goken, to answer your second questions, I'd say that what would make me feel valued is if somebody got excited about improving the temple. Every day.

Here's how the process works now:
1. Idea by member.
2. Told to higher ups:
3. They say "cool, do it!" But, then it's like pulling teeth. You're told you have no real power. You're told that your opinions don't matter. You should accept this is how the group is. Leave it alone.

And, then the idea dies and temple remains still. Decaying.

What I'd want is a different 3.
I'd want them to set up committees, allow ideas to actually change things daily. No more of this red tape garbage. I'm not talking about specific goals either. I'm talking about a mindset we have as a site that we should just relax and just kind of be here.

Imagine if we approached our own training that way. "oh i think deadlifting 300 lbs would be a great goal for my weight lifting! But, that would take excitement and work.. Maybe I'll just stay like I am and let the world pass me by."

It sounds ridiculous. And if any Knight's apprentice had that attitude, I'd hope they'd chastize the apprentice for that attitude.

Kit wrote: I want people to realize what their rank MEANS. That it has weight. What they say often caries more because of some band under their picture. I'm not saying they should censor but just be AWARE of what it means. We have all sorts of classes at every level for this in the Air Force. Maybe something in a lesson plan somewhere.

That's actually not a bad lesson for Apprenticeship. Perhaps some of the training masters will take that into consideration.

Wescli Wardest wrote: First, Council is just a forum like any other and people weigh in when they can. So, sometimes things take a LONG time. And there may be several things being discussed at once.
That said, let me ask another set of questions…

How would a list of currently discussed topics, help the membership on their path?
Does it add to the lessons or help members become better/more Jedi?
Why would knowing what was being discussed make people feel more important?

And, like I said earlier, a lot of times we do ask for outside opinions. In the Knight’s forums.

Announcing changes that have been decided is not an unreasonable request. We have a Council Secretary and that could be added to his duties. So guess what topic will be discussed in Council…

As for votes, unless it is a straw vote, we try to keep them anonymous. So unless you asked the Councilor how they voted, we’ll never know.

So, to keep things on track, how would transparency in the Council help anyone with their studies, be a better Jedi or feel more important?

It's not about feeling important, it's not about studies, it's about feeling listened to.

I made a suggestion in the knights forum re council... In the same thread a council member suggested a Secretary...guess who got their suggestion discussed and whose was shot down without discussion.

By seeing what is being discussed, members know that council have been reading threads, listening to ideas, taking things on board.

We are a community in our entirety, council and populace. Sitting 'up there' without showing you value our thoughts and ideas is frustrating and opaque.

Edan wrote: It's not about feeling important, it's not about studies, it's about feeling listened to.

Not just that (Though very on point) But a Community is a Team. This Temple is a Team. Teams work together through problems big or small.

If we go by your questions Wescli Wardest then i have one for you - Why should I be here at the Temple? I certainly don't NEED to be here to be a Jedi.

I do, however, prefer to be apart of a team of many than a team of one though

It's not about feeling important, it's not about studies, it's about feeling listened to.

But it was brought up in the “why do people feel unimportant” thread?
:huh:

Sometimes suggestions are shot down for various reasons. Usually, because they have either been discussed before or tried and not worked out. Sometimes more tack could be used when saying no. I am one that does not always write in the most tactful manor, and I know that I am guilty of it. It’s not that I mean to be mean, it’s just my speech patterns. I am usually straight forward and direct. I have also spent years here at TotJO trying to figure out how to talk to people because they have feelings that seem easily hurt. Not meaning you in particular, but sometimes when I say things it sounds harsh I guess. I’m still working on it.

Most things discussed in Council have to do with inner workings. I could get a list if it would make people feel better. But it is nothing exciting and most of it doesn’t have to do with what is posted in threads unless there is some reason. Ideas are listened to, but we rarely get those. I know that people have ideas, but how many have sent a PM to Council members stating those ideas?

Trisskar wrote:

Edan wrote: It's not about feeling important, it's not about studies, it's about feeling listened to.

Not just that (Though very on point) But a Community is a Team. This Temple is a Team. Teams work together through problems big or small.

If we go by your questions Wescli Wardest then i have one for you - Why should I be here at the Temple? I certainly don't NEED to be here to be a Jedi.

I do, however, prefer to be apart of a team of many than a team of one though

I think you answered your own question... "I do, however, prefer to be apart of a team of many than a team of one though "

This is not meant to be sarcastic or rude or what ever, and I know we are a community and family, and we have many teams each tasked with it's own purpose. Like I said before... we are not hiding anything, but focusing on working out the details to the inner workings is not what we, Council, wants the membership to focus on. There is so much more here than updating the FAQ, or cleaning up links, working on becoming a recognized entity. These are all things that distract from TotJO's mission. Which is to help it's membership find their, not our, path of Jediism.