Why do people here feel unimportant?

Well Adi, since you feel like shit and it's all because of a community I founded - I'll certainly take any suggestions on how I can make you feel better? If it's something I can do within reason I'll do my best.

I'm not feeling how this is connected to the topic. Forgive me for saying so but this seems between 2 and off topic?

Maybe not? I'm wrong often.

Oh, come off it. It's not "because of a community you founded." I'm pissed off, sure, but I'll be fine in the morning. I just can't believe a thread about "why do you feel unimportant" has featured real-time examples of why I feel unimportant. After so long, I want to draw closer to the heart of this community, dammit, but experiences like this push me away. That's why I'm frustrated tonight, and I am sorry — but it's not something that sprang out of thin air.

If you want a suggestion: listen. Listen when someone expresses a concern and respect where they're coming from. Respect them even if you think where they're coming from is silly. Because if you want to respect their dignity as a human being, it's fair and legitimate. That's all. This entire thing has unfolded because you didn't listen to my first post and didn't listen to my follow-up posts. Other people here are marginalized for similar reasons. It's not rocket science: listen! And also, um, maybe respect what the topic was originally about. Which is not Spong or Adi's religious views.

Anyway, that's all I got, so peace. I thought about praying for divine intervention to take my keyboard away from me, but it's probably not going to happen, so I'm going to move along of my own free will.

"Without love there is no such thing as salvation. There is salvation only where there is love." - Toyohiko Kagawa

Connor raised some very, very good points. Points I agree with quite a bit. In a recent post in my apprenticeship journal, I mention the idea of a "moving hurdle", travelling down the track in front of me as a way to dismiss my opinions. "We'll listen to you when you're an initiate/Knight/finish the seminary/get ordained..." And the cycle never seems to have an end.

That's one of the major reasons I'm so forceful with those opinions now. Because I'm tired of feeling like people look for excuses to brush them off. So I go out of my way to make that nearly impossible, and then the same folks turn around and use that behavior as an example of why they don't respect me. Its a cycle of bullsh**; you cause the attitude that makes you refuse to respect my opinion because you don't respect my opinion.

And when Adi said, I want to get close to the heart of this community, but dammit, it's experiences like this that push me away... (paraphrased, not pasted)? That's something I get in my inbox every single day. People feel like that so often. They feel like Adi does, like I do, like Kit does, like OB1 does, like elizabeth does. I can't name drop like I wish I could (ironically because I'm bound to confidentiality without an oath), but you would probably be amazed at some of the members of this Temple I've had to help through this, while still feeling like people are chanting for me to quit myself.

Br. John wrote: https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/108036-the-folly-of-pleasing-all?limitstart=0&start=10#161718

Worth a re-read once a year.

This is something that applies to people like me, who came here wanting to see all kinds of changes. Sometimes I was right, but most of the time I was just picking fights and being childish. The complaints I'm seeing here are not the same as asking to appease each and every whim. These people are not like me, at least not in this regard. These are legitimate frustrations from people who have slipped through the cracks because of we have failed them as a community. I must admit, I'm kind appalled because while I think you intention might have been pure, it comes across as unfeeling and dismissive.

I am one of those people who didn't slip through the cracks. I had lots of people in my corner from day one. Any time I mention I'm having a bad day or having doubts about my path, I get at least one or two PMs from concerned members. My return to the Temple was celebrated and lots of people have come together to help me find my way as I struggle through a lot of things. The fact I'm seeing here is that not everyone has had the fortune of being so well cared for by the community. Not everyone even needs the kind of attention I have had, but maybe just some recognition that what their going through is real and they don't have to go through it alone.

I am also a perpetrator of many of the things which people have complained about. Dismissive based on who said it rather than considering the merits of what was said? Guilty. Scorning the traditional Christian view and making it clear just what I think of traditional Christianity? Guilty. Being a real shitlord to my fellow members because of disagreements over political matters? Guilty. Using my rank and status as a source of authority? Guilty. I am one of those people who has been contributing to the problems discussed in this thread while also receiving the full benefits, the best of what this Temple has to offer.

So when people ask for some understanding and a serious evaluation of our attitude at the Temple, that seems like a small task in comparison to all the work that was done to help me come back into the fold. But I guess I can't expect anyone to do anything if I don't set an example. I don't know exactly where to start, but I'm paying attention.

A bedtime story (for the loneliest one...)

http://fasterthanfashion.blogspot.com/2006/06/saucer-of-loneliness.html

Connor L. wrote: I feel unimportant for a couple of reasons.

1. When I was a knight, I tried to make changes for the better, and I got immensely chewed out for it by multiple people. People yelled at me via text and told me I was a bad person. These were higher ups, by the way. Council members. Strangely, though, I can't find that PM to quote the text from... I wonder if I deleted it for some reason. I felt I was doing the right thing at the time. Even if it wasn't, I didn't deserve the reaction I got.

It made me realize that I was unwelcome as a Knight because I was constantly wanting to change things to make them better.

And, unfortunately, nobody was willing to shovel the snow with me for more than a few minutes a week to make it happen. Things only happen if we work as a team, but that means the Temple has to become a priority. A part time job, if you will.

When I realized there were only a handful of people willing to do that, and I couldn't take on the burden on my own, I realized that this place is mostly "soft". We come, we think, and we move on with our day. We come, we post, we react, we argue, and then we go home.

But, that's not what I want in a Jedi group. I want a group of people where my HOME and what I put my blood/sweat/tears into is my Jedi friends. I want to dine with them. Cry with them. Tell stories. Live with them. Make changes every day with them.

No online site can do that. So, I decided to pull away from the websites and focus on my two offline groups (Colorado Jedi/Indy Jedi). One of which I run, the other I am a student of the person who runs it.

So, it's less that I feel unimportant, it's that I don't feel people take this site seriously enough.

2. It seems that keeping the status quo is more important than actually making changes. I have been a disruption to that. And, because of this, I have received many a PM about how I need to step back and just join the crowd.
Unacceptable. And, it makes me feel like my opinion is unimportant. It's not. Let me tell you.

This is exactly how I feel right now.

I hope this isn't off-topic, and it is certainly not meant in any way to undermine this really important discussion and the meaningful, real grievances that people have and are long-overdue being addressed. Rather, I would like to raise the question of: why we feel its important to feel important?

The reality is, that as human beings, I believe we each have equal importance (value). Any hierarchy of importance (value / significance / status / influence) that we perceive is one that we have constructed ourselves and is often due to our conditioning. Our society creates layers of importance that we buy into and accept without even realising it. As Krishnamurti might say "I encourage anyone concerned to really look at this closely". It may not be obvious but it seems to me that significance, status and influence do not affect the value that we equally have - despite what society has conditioned us to think.

There is little doubt that others have the capacity to make me feel unimportant (or important!) but the reality is that my real worth, my real value and my real importance are unaffected by how I, or anyone else, feel.

As it happens, I like feeling unimportant - there is tremendous freedom in it, something I value highly. If you like feeling important that is absolutely fine too - but similarly, those feelings don't affect how 'important' you actually are Of course I have people who are more or less important to me but in my life, but that importance has nothing to do with status or influence or significance to broader society.

If you want or need ongoing reassurance and justification of your importance from others, its like trying to get salt out of the pepper pot - you're probably going to be disappointed wherever you go.

Having said all of that I think the comments regarding how we can collectively improve our listening skills are bang on. There are few more effective ways of demonstrating an appreciation for our equal importance, than listening.

Goken wrote: This bothers me as a Jedi and as a fellow human being.

As well it should. I've been a Jedi for 20 years, and I question my importance. Why? "Why" is a question more revealing than its answer.