Holocrons and the New Canon

So, the new Star Wars canon (set in place with The Clone Wars, The Force Awakens, Rebels, and Rogue One) has greatly changed the way lightsaber crystals are depicted, pretty much entirely being kyber crystals, with a natural attunement to the Force.

This got me thinking: Wookieepedia describes holocrons as being made of a "crystalline material," but doesn't specify what, and the Star Wars Databank doesn't say much about it either.

Now, I still need to catch up on Rebels and probably read some of the newer materials (comics, books, etc.) but I haven't seen anything about the material. I do, however, recall that they can only be opened by a Jedi, and when they do, they require the Force. Also they seem to "speak" to them (when not opened) and when a Jedi and Sith Holocron were combined they provided some kind of crazy super-vision at high price.

So this obviously leads down to the question: Are holocrons made of kyber? It's supposed to be incredibly durable material, too, so I'm really curious how, if so, it could even be carved to make them. Or maybe there's just a crystal in the center and it's made of something else. I don't know.

What do you guys think?

New Cannon dosn't really say. About the most that the new Canon has touched on was in Rebels when Darth Maul and Ezera joined the two sides together.

Old Cannon was dependent on the creator. Just like choosing your right crystal the creator had to choose the right materials attuned to them, which meant every holocron was made of many many various material sources. Bane books also touch up on the creation of them.

But yea. Nothing specifically stated yet

Holocrons cant be opened just by Jedi. They can be opened by any force user in general. This is the culmination of the ultimate prophesy of the whills that both jedi and Sith have misinterpreted.

Trisskar wrote: New Cannon dosn't really say. About the most that the new Canon has touched on was in Rebels when Darth Maul and Ezera joined the two sides together.

Old Cannon was dependent on the creator. Just like choosing your right crystal the creator had to choose the right materials attuned to them, which meant every holocron was made of many many various material sources. Bane books also touch up on the creation of them.

But yea. Nothing specifically stated yet

Yeah, old canon was a bit messy, wasn't it?

But what do you suppose? You think they're kyber constructs, imbued with the knowledge consciousness of the Jedi (or Sith) masters who created them? I mean... it seems logical, right?

(I think the Bane books are among those I missed in my Star Wars book binge, I should add them to my stack of books I need to read.)

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Holocrons cant be opened just by Jedi. They can be opened by any force user in general. This is the culmination of the ultimate prophesy of the whills that both jedi and Sith have misinterpreted.

From what I recall in Rebels, Jedi holocrons can only be opened by Jedi. That's the problem Maul encountered, and so he required Ezra's assistance.

Er... where does this notion of the "Prophecy of the Whills being misinterpreted" come from? Maybe there's something else I've missed?

Xiam wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Holocrons cant be opened just by Jedi. They can be opened by any force user in general. This is the culmination of the ultimate prophesy of the whills that both jedi and Sith have misinterpreted.

From what I recall in Rebels, Jedi holocrons can only be opened by Jedi. That's the problem Maul encountered, and so he required Ezra's assistance.

Er... where does this notion of the "Prophecy of the Whills being misinterpreted" come from? Maybe there's something else I've missed?

No they can be opened by any force user that has the proper encoding crystal or encryption key. Jedi holocrons have Jedi encryption keys but if you have the key and are force sensitive you can open it.

Yoda actually even says in the movies that the Jedi prophesy might have been misinterpreted. The actual full prophesy is found in the Journal of the Whills. Jedi have misinterpreted it as being fulfilled by the destruction of the Sith. But the prophesy does not say this, It actually says both extremes need to be destroyed in the Jedi and the Sith both for balance to be returned to the force. This will be a return to the philosophy of the Je'daii in the fact that they embraced both the light and the dark side of the force in true balance. The new trilogy is moving towards this concept - hence Luke being called the "Last Jedi". This is also the reason that Lukes attempt to rebuild the Jedi order ended in disaster.

Good answer Kyrin !
Some say We all need each other to bring balance

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Xiam wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Holocrons cant be opened just by Jedi. They can be opened by any force user in general. This is the culmination of the ultimate prophesy of the whills that both jedi and Sith have misinterpreted.

From what I recall in Rebels, Jedi holocrons can only be opened by Jedi. That's the problem Maul encountered, and so he required Ezra's assistance.

Er... where does this notion of the "Prophecy of the Whills being misinterpreted" come from? Maybe there's something else I've missed?

No they can be opened by any force user that has the proper encoding crystal or encryption key. Jedi holocrons have Jedi encryption keys but if you have the key and are force sensitive you can open it.

Yoda actually even says in the movies that the Jedi prophesy might have been misinterpreted. The actual full prophesy is found in the Journal of the Whills. Jedi have misinterpreted it as being fulfilled by the destruction of the Sith. But the prophesy does not say this, It actually says both extremes need to be destroyed in the Jedi and the Sith both for balance to be returned to the force. This will be a return to the philosophy of the Je'daii in the fact that they embraced both the light and the dark side of the force in true balance. The new trilogy is moving towards this concept - hence Luke being called the "Last Jedi". This is also the reason that Lukes attempt to rebuild the Jedi order ended in disaster.

But the source of this is...? Where exactly would one read the Journal of the Whills? If the destruction of both is required, why was Luke instructed to "Pass on what you have learned"? He is not the final Jedi, either - the title of the next movie is plural (languages that can show difference between singular and plural have designated it as plural).

When has it ever implied that the Light Side brings imbalance? The Sith are not the counter of the Jedi, they are merely another of several schools of Force training. The two were simply at constant war with one another. As far as I know, the "balance by mutual destruction" is nothing more than a fan theory. George Lucas seems to have intended the victory and survival of the Jedi (and their return, hence Episode VI's title) to be the "good" outcome.

Consider how the Republic existed under the guardianship of the Jedi Order (flawed, but relatively peaceful) to how the Empire existed under the rule of the Sith (control out of fear, legalized slavery, oppression of inhuman races). There is a clear imbalance at work, especially once the Sith began to manipulate the Senate in the later years of the Republic.

I don't think Ezra had an encryption key when he used the Force to open the Jedi Holocron. Meanwhile, Maul was unable, and I'm almost positive it was specifically stated because he wasn't a Jedi. Nothing to do with passcodes, just that he wasn't allowed.

But, I've been meaning to re-watch.

In any case, I think the original issue was that the Force was needed to access the knowledge within, which would greatly imply that kyber crystals are, in some way, involved, right?

Xiam wrote: But the source of this is...? Where exactly would one read the Journal of the Whills? If the destruction of both is required, why was Luke instructed to "Pass on what you have learned"? He is not the final Jedi, either - the title of the next movie is plural (languages that can show difference between singular and plural have designated it as plural).

When has it ever implied that the Light Side brings imbalance? The Sith are not the counter of the Jedi, they are merely another of several schools of Force training. The two were simply at constant war with one another. As far as I know, the "balance by mutual destruction" is nothing more than a fan theory. George Lucas seems to have intended the victory and survival of the Jedi (and their return, hence Episode VI's title) to be the "good" outcome.

Consider how the Republic existed under the guardianship of the Jedi Order (flawed, but relatively peaceful) to how the Empire existed under the rule of the Sith (control out of fear, legalized slavery, oppression of inhuman races). There is a clear imbalance at work, especially once the Sith began to manipulate the Senate in the later years of the Republic.

I don't think Ezra had an encryption key when he used the Force to open the Jedi Holocron. Meanwhile, Maul was unable, and I'm almost positive it was specifically stated because he wasn't a Jedi. Nothing to do with passcodes, just that he wasn't allowed.

But, I've been meaning to re-watch.

In any case, I think the original issue was that the Force was needed to access the knowledge within, which would greatly imply that kyber crystals are, in some way, involved, right?

First off Lucas no longer owns the Franchise and so the slanted view of the Jedi prevailing is finally being re-balanced into the true prophesy of the Whills. (an entire set of notes Lucas originally wrote but never brought to fruition). This concept is seeded through out all the latest Star Wars works and this ancient Journal was brought to cannon in the Novelization of "The Force Awakens". And yes, in the world of Star Wars, the Jedi (Ashla - light side) are the direct opposites of the Sith (Bogan - dark side), and both are out of balance with the true will of the balanced force (Bendu - both sides actually a single aspect). Both these factions originated on Tython from the original Je'daii Rangers who could only quell the force storms of that place through the practice of Bendu or balance in the force. This is being returned to through a new refined Jedi Site in the last Jedi's realization that both sides need to be embraced.

It is not in embracing only the light site nor the dark side that balance is achieved. It is in embracing both sides of the force that becomes one single aspect - Just The Force. Your assertion that the time of the Jedi order was a peaceful one is false. In fact wars between the Sith and the Jedi have raged for Millennia during that time. And slavery has always been a thing, even in Jedi times. Anakin Skywalker himself was a slave before being taken by Qui-Gon Ginn through dark manipulation of a dice roll so he could gain an unfair advantage.

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Journal_of_the_Whills

everyone here is way over my head in knowledge!
just to throw this out I heard there were days of the Grays which used both the light and dark side of the force
could it be they were more balanced or one with the force?

forceuser wrote: everyone here is way over my head in knowledge!
just to throw this out I heard there were days of the Grays which used both the light and dark side of the force
could it be they were more balanced or one with the force?

No.

It just means they chose to not align themselves with Jedi or Sith. Say you chose to join the air force. That dosn't make you an expert in over all military exploits. It just means your airforce.

Jedi and Sith are SCHOOLS

Gray is a Choice to do things your own way above School Rules. AKA your miscreants, Slack off's, rule breakers, gangsters, bullies.....so forth and so on....

People over dramatize this whole "Balance" Ideal thinking its some god send. Apparently its cool to be above the laws and rules

Trisskar wrote: Gray is a Choice to do things your own way above School Rules. AKA your miscreants, Slack off's, rule breakers, gangsters, bullies.....so forth and so on....

People over dramatize this whole "Balance" Ideal thinking its some god send. Apparently its cool to be above the laws and rules

Oh come on Trisskar, you gotta admit that breaking a few rules and living outside anyone's preconceived notion of what your "supposed to be doing" is maybe a little bit of fun, right? :silly: :evil:

That doesn't necessarily make you a "gansta" - It might just make you a free spirited independent thinker. Its these sorts of people that blaze new trails into the unknown and, in our example here, find deeper meanings in The Force than any followed dogma or set of rules could ever hope to achieve.

You are right. However some of the "Gray" Jedi in fiction were indeed 'Gangsta' like. (And I do believe we are talking about fiction yes? )

In fiction "Gray Jedi" were Jedi who left the order and in the case of some, put their services to the sith. Just like everything its individual

Just because you tamper with the darkside dosn't mean you are wise or more balanced. Just means your tampering with the darkside.

These "Deeper Meanings" is purely personal not movement based

Yes Jedi outcasts may have followed this path but there are many other force sensitive groups outside the Jedi or the Sith that just walked the line between light and dark. The Je'daii being the most prominent but there were other groups as well like the Krath, sorcerers of Tund, Jal Shey, Baron Do Sages, Dagoyan Masters, Force Witches of Dathomir just to name a few. Many of these groups strive for a balanced view of the force.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Force Witches of Dathomir

Im sorry.....but you and I are going to have to dissagree on the view points here. Except for Je'daii all the groups you listed did not "Strive" for "Balance" Especially the witches of Dathomir who more like prefered to dominate than balance hahaha

LOL, I guess it depends on your view of "Balance". It is not synonymous with harmony. I think the Jedi are another example of a philosophy out of balance so far it becomes derogatory.

Only in one case of your list of schools. All the others were meerly force sensative groups doing their own thing their own way. Which has nothing to do with "Balance"


Jal Shey - Negotiators (Good debaters) Intellectual forsaking spiritual ideals for more logical pursuits <- Not balance

Krath, sorcerers of Tund - Sorcerers, deception, concealment. Outcasts of Pure Blooded Sith who prefered to do things their own way - Not balance

Baron Do Sages - Philisophical. They studied things more philisophicaly and allowed their students to pick and choose what they wanted. Some were more physical than others and for the longest time followed false idealogies. - Not Balance

Dagoyan Masters - Pacifist. They saught HARMONY of the universe. - Not Balance. (Balance and Harmony are two different things)

Do those things make them Gangsters though? While in some cases it may, I would say in others it does not. Its just each groups attempts to find an equilibrium in the force. And yes I would say the Je'daii were probably the most successful in that for the greatest amount of time.

In the end it was not their philosophy that destroyed them but uncontrolled deviation from their philosophies that caused the Force Wars in the first place. From that rose two separate and unbalanced factions in the Jedi and the Sith, thus creating division and the illusion of separateness where none was really ever meant to exist. It only follows that re-integration of these two factions into a single balanced state once again is the only thing that will bring harmony back to the force doesn't it? Not the domination of one faction over the other.

Kyrin.....You are taking 1 thing and forcing it into a galaxy full of unrelated things.

Back track.

I said that Grey Jedi were Jedi who disavowed Jedi Rules and that by doing so they had the potential of falling into a category, one such category was of a gangter practice in which they attempted to serve Sith against their Jedi Breatheran in some of the major wars.

That has nothing to do with Any other school that practices the force

That has nothing to do with the Gray Jedi who simply did their own thing (Such as Correllion Jedi or even Qui Gon Jin)

That has nothing to do with any of the points you have brought up so far because.....They are all unrelated to the subject I was referring to.

So to answer you current question

Do those things make them Gangsters though?

Of course not. Because I was not talking about them

Its just each groups attempts to find an equilibrium in the force

As I pointed out....these groups were not attempting to find any kind of balance or equilibrium or whatever you want to call it They were trying to do things their own way for their own gains. Simple as that.

And yes I would say the Je'daii were probably the most successful in that for the greatest amount of time.

Actually.....they died out rather quickly

It only follows that re-integration of these two factions into a single balanced state once again is the only thing that will bring harmony back to the force doesn't it?

No. Because the galaxy dosn't work like that. The only reason why Je'daii strived for a perfect balance was because the planet they lived on would have destroyed them if they didn't. Too much dark energy wrecked massive storms that would kill them all, too much lightside stagnation and equal death.

Living in this purpetual state of unrest between white and black is and was proven to be quite unhealthy.


Buuuuuut.....Im afraid you and I are getting way off topic here Perhaps we should have a admin split us....

LOL fair enough. I thought you were trying to include any non Jedi Force user in your gangsta analogy.
My mistake!

Although I still disagree with you on your last point. I think Tython was representative of the function of the Galaxy in general. It is a physical warning of the dangers of straying to far to the right or the left. Even so, as I think we have both said, balance does not equal harmony, it just equals balance. Balance is about denying neither side of our personality but embracing both equally. This is the best way to navigate those internal emotional storms that rage inside each of us. And in that, the Micro reflects the Macro. Harmony is about integrating those storms with your greater surroundings.

lol or maybe I'm waaaay overthinking all this!

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: lol or maybe I'm waaaay overthinking all this!

Uuuum.....yes. You are the authors of these books were not trying to provide philosophical ideals. They were writing stories. Therefor

I think Tython was representative of the function of the Galaxy in general.

Tython was a planet. Nothing more or less. It was not meant to represent the galaxy at all haha And even in a philosophical sense....it is a very very poor way to expect anyone to live their lives. IMO and is in no way a "Better" practice as was originally suggested in Force Users comment

Grey Jedi (Of which he specifically asked about) were akin to drop outs and rule breakers. I specifically made these distinctions because real world Jedi tend to over fantasize the idea of using dark and lightside without understanding the repercussions of what that actually entails.