Non-Conformity...

I make it a point not to conform.


This being said I'm pretty sure one of the kids dies in that movie.

Actually, Adhara and I were just talking about that this afternoon ...

Total (exaggerated) non-conformity would be horrible. One would be terribly isolated. We have to have some commonalities and agreements to function in and as a society. And that is in and of itself innate to us ... humans are social animals, without a community, we die. Even with regard to our biology, we con-form to human physiognomy - if we didn't do that, we would be de-formed.

But that isn't the type of con-forming we're talking about ... It is not even simply the choice to conform or not to conform but the awareness of the conformity. There is also false 'individualism' which is just another sort of conformity to that particular cult ...

It seems to me that JK's conformity - saying the 'right' things to be 'respected' by the 'right' people (the 'in-group') - perpetually against one's own feelings is going to be like a constant diet of stale food. Or even worse, not ever discovering what one's own thoughts and feeling about things truly are ! that would be like a diet of food that others have already eaten. We have a name for that sort of stuff ...

We do have to conform in part ; all levels of social organisation depend on it. Likewise, all levels of social organisation depend on a little non-conformity too, without which we would have an arrested culture. And that non-conformity has to penetrate all of the social dimensions : the arts, religions, sciences, politics, philosophy &c. But even that non-conformity, which assuredly meets with resistance, has to remain recognisable, it must remain at least marginally within the scope of not only what people know, but also what they are comfortable with. In other words, non-conformity has limits.

It seems to me that JK's conformity - saying the 'right' things to be 'respected' by the 'right' people (the 'in-group')

I have told an individual that if he hasnt been kissing ass he didnt want it enough. :laugh: I also told him I wouldnt kiss ass though.

I did always like this speech though in regards to non conformity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuYhfCkRxyE

Khaos wrote:

I dont think the point of the scene was to say conformity is bad, but more to say to choose it for a reason,

Im saying my "choice" is inconsequential.

In conformity, no one cares about my justifications or excuses for why, they just care that I do.

No, it is not inconsequential... But, it might seem that to you, I guess...

I think it speaks volumes that you choose to retrain yourself, and is very interesting to me...

Im also venturing to say it was not a choice on my part.

I wanted to get into healthcare.

I pretty much had to be on the bandwagon, or I did not get my nursing license.

I have to obey the law, whether I choose to or not.

In school, I did not choose to be there, much less learn,( though of course there were subjects I enjoyed) I had to, reinforced by the heavy hand, fist, belt, two by four, of my parents.

Is there choice here?

Perhaps if it makes you feel better to think so.

Do I have a choice to act as I like here?

I would beg to differ...

You had a choice... You chose it to get to your goal... Me too, just saying, there is always a choice...

Not if I want to be here.

A revolutionary that keeps it to himself isnt much of one though.

And the crux of it...

Your desire to be here, be in healthcare, not get a ticket, and so forth, means you choose....

But, we do not have to choose mindlessly...

We do not follow blindly....

But, to reach our desired goals.... Which is REALLY what we are after...

I am addressing everyone, but using your words as the springboard...

ren wrote: I make it a point not to conform.


This being said I'm pretty sure one of the kids dies in that movie.

Yea, he does...

He feels that strong about his opinions...

And, it is the downfall of William's character in the school...

Yes, you make it a point to not conform, but at the risk of being seen as a jerk...

:lol:....

Yes, you make it a point to not conform, but at the risk of being seen as a jerk..

It can also cut off great opportunities for oneself.

No, it is not inconsequential... But, it might seem that to you, I guess...

I think it speaks volumes that you choose to retrain yourself, and is very interesting to me...

Still, to those that would like one to conform, its inconsensequential as to why.

Is it to me?

Of course not, but I understand the value of sacrifice.

Still, whatever excuses or justifications I have to call it a "choice" really has no bearing on my employer.

As for retraining, I have no idea what your talking about, so cannot respond.

You had a choice... You chose it to get to your goal... Me too, just saying, there is always a choice...

I sacrificed choice actually, which again, can be seen as a choice if I need to make myself feel better about my conformity, but I dont.

Haha, its like those who say they didnt sell out but bought in.

Whatever gets you moving on.

But, to reach our desired goals.... Which is REALLY what we are after..

Perhaps, except when you say its all about perspective...except my perspective, as long as it conforms to the perspective of behavior for ToTJo, and even then, my perspective is in extreme minority.

I want to be here, but I cant be myself....Interesting...

Healthcare would fit as a goal, but really, that would fit into sacrifice of choice.

Also it is not a goal to stay out of prison, I dont have to try that hard to avoid bars, but I am well aware of what I can and cannot do in society.

Most of us choose to conform at certain times because we think it best for whatever reason. I think the point of that scene is that we have the choice. Be who you are and not who you should be.

Khaos wrote: In school, I did not choose to be there, much less learn,( though of course there were subjects I enjoyed) I had to, reinforced by the heavy hand, fist, belt, two by four, of my parents.

Sounds like your parents and mine went to the same school of parenting

My view of conformity is that unless you truly accept and embrace the change, making it part of who you are, you're not really conforming...if at first opportunity you return to who you really are, then you're merely playing the game...wearing a mask...a wolf in sheeps clothing...I strongly dislike playing the game, and forcing me to sometimes causes me to become worse...

You can choose to conform, you can choose to play the game, or you can choose to do neither...it all depends on what achieving your goal requires...

Yes, you make it a point to not conform, but at the risk of being seen as a jerk...

Still far preferable to being a conformist, especially in this day and age.