Fight the Disrespect from One by Disrespecting All?

I imagine the sentiments here will be mixed, particularly given the international diversity this Temple has, and given the fact that not all of you are/were American Football fans of any sort...but I am somewhat curious as to what your take might be on the question of fighting the disrespect of one public figure, by having a couple hundred other public figures disrespect the entire nation?

For a little preview of my general take, see a below post I made elsewhere...

For other context, just Google anything with the words NFL and National Anthem together and you should get a smattering of takes on it from other perspectives.


Dear NFL:

I make a concerted effort to keep out of these sorts of issues, but your actions this weekend have inspired me to take actions myself, and in ways I never would have otherwise.

I have been an NFL fan my whole life, and never once thought anything could ever change that.

Today, I am done.

I have zero respect for people that have zero respect. It's that simple. All politics aside. You want to be a role model, but are so quick to take offense and show all your fans that being disrespectful is appropriate behavior for a "professional" public figure?

How is it that you can kneel during my National Anthem, talking about inequality and complaining that the POTUS disrespected you, while you make hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year, then turn around and disrespect the ENTIRE country, to try and make your point about inequality and not wanting to be disrespected? The hypocrisy level here is unreal.

If you want people to listen to you, if you want to show unity and courage to stand up for what is right, then you should be standing taller than you ever have during the Star Spangled Banner, singing at the top of your lungs, draping your shoulders in red, white, and blue.

The American Flag and National Anthem are not symbols of the current administration, or representatives of a single issue you may disagree with. They are symbols of EVERYTHING that makes our country great. Including your opportunity to earn a ludicrous living doing something you love to do. Play the game. Don't abuse your platform. You can't fight disrespect from one by being disrespectful to all.

Not only will I no longer attend, watch, or listen to any of your games. I will not wear your gear. I will not watch any programming from any networks who air your disrespectful "protests", and I will not spend my money on any goods, services, or products of the companies that sponsor the NFL. Not a single dollar I make will go towards a revenue stream to pay you to kneel during the Star Spangled Banner.

You are professional athletes...for entertainment...get over yourself. I am over you.

Thanks for giving me my Sundays back.

A disgusted former fan.

On a (similiar?) issue (not limited to the USA)-


How about pulling all your goddamn heads in -

You are sports players, elite athletes, and when it comes down to it, entertainers.

Stay in your bloody lane, you're not given a soapbox to promote any damn issue you please just because you happen to have the stage for a moment.

You're obviously welcome to your private views, as are (most) citizens of (some) countries, but the second you leverage your "fame" for some (any) other agenda, I have no time for you at all.

That goes for anyone else in any of the other realms of entertainment - If you want to enter politics, you're free to do so, if you're just under the wildly mistaken impression that your political views are more valid that someone elses because you've made a few million with a pretty voice and some side-boob, then kindly shut the hell up.

JamesSand wrote: On a (similiar?) issue (not limited to the USA)-


How about pulling all your goddamn heads in -

You are sports players, elite athletes, and when it comes down to it, entertainers.

Stay in your bloody lane, you're not given a soapbox to promote any damn issue you please just because you happen to have the stage for a moment.

You're obviously welcome to your private views, as are (most) citizens of (some) countries, but the second you leverage your "fame" for some (any) other agenda, I have no time for you at all.

That goes for anyone else in any of the other realms of entertainment - If you want to enter politics, you're free to do so, if you're just under the wildly mistaken impression that your political views are more valid that someone elses because you've made a few million with a pretty voice and some side-boob, then kindly shut the hell up.

^THIS...is also a general sentiment of mine. If you disagree with how things are going, politically, then run for office yourself. Reagan was an actor-turned-President...even Arnold got involved and served two terms as the Governor of California. You don't like something, do something to fix it, directly. Did Caesar ever solicit the political opinions on domestic policy issues from gladiators? Has any country, nation, kingdom, or civilization ever relied upon the influence of athletes and entertainers to guide their political arena?

SamThift wrote: You are professional athletes...for entertainment...get over yourself. I am over you.

Thanks for giving me my Sundays back.

A disgusted former fan.

The fact that you posted this shows you are NOT over this.

I am curious if you see any inconsistency in the fact that you consider NFL players "JUST entertainers" yet get offended that they make a political stand (hint: if you truly did see them as "just entertainers", their political statements should be inconsequential).

The beauty of democracy and freedom of speech is that allows people to leverage their popularity towards causes they care about. Apparently this person cares about it enough to risk a negative impact on his career. What are you risking with your letter?

Manu wrote:

SamThift wrote: You are professional athletes...for entertainment...get over yourself. I am over you.

Thanks for giving me my Sundays back.

A disgusted former fan.

The fact that you posted this shows you are NOT over this.

I am curious if you see any inconsistency in the fact that you consider NFL players "JUST entertainers" yet get offended that they make a political stand (hint: if you truly did see them as "just entertainers", their political statements should be inconsequential).

The beauty of democracy and freedom of speech is that allows people to leverage their popularity towards causes they care about. Apparently this person cares about it enough to risk a negative impact on his career. What are you risking with your letter?

Fair points and questions.

I suppose in one sense, being "over it" was not truly accomplished if I felt compelled to write the piece...or even engage further in dialogue here. I am "over" the decision hurdle of whether or not I wanted to express my distaste for the whole situation though, as I chose to do so.

On the second point, I would not specifically say that I was offended that they have an opinion simply because they are just entertainers. I think JamesSand made a bit of that point more directly above. Though I wholly welcome their opinions and beliefs, but to the extent that mine matters just as much as theirs does thus my opinion is equal to each and every one of those, although I will not get anywhere near the attention they do.

The last point is undefeatable. It is 100% true that the ability to leverage notoriety to further other unrelated causes exists, and not only within democracies.

In the truest response, however, the medium within which I first posted on the issue does open my professional career to negative impacts as well. Otherwise, my "risk" is just as negligible as theirs.

SamThift wrote: I would not specifically say that I was offended that they have an opinion simply because they are just entertainers. I think JamesSand made a bit of that point more directly above. Though I wholly welcome their opinions and beliefs, but to the extent that mine matters just as much as theirs does thus my opinion is equal to each and every one of those, although I will not get anywhere near the attention they do.

What I get from JamesSand's implied point (I say implied because it is what I understood, I might be misreading) is that it is distasteful for people to "shove" politics down our throats. I don't disagree with it, I can understand how it can be off-putting to want to be entertained and having that turned into a political platform. However, a famous person leveraging their fame to get the "word" out is the natural consequence of the leadership that comes with fame: people close to him might be suffering and have no voice, and he is giving them a voice. The fact that he is famous does not make his opinion more valid, only more noticed.

The title of this post seems to assume that what he did was in fact disrespecting everyone, when I think that is not necessarily true. Did he disrespect everyone? Did he somehow bring dishonor to the country? Or was his gesture simply off-putting because it brought an ugly situation out into the open, precisely to the sort of shows we like to use as a drug, to get away from such ugliness? I can't help but feel his only "crime" was to make people feel unsettled.

Honestly, I was surprised to find out that football players are sitting out the national anthem again. Wasn't this a big issue two years ago?

JamesSand wrote: You are sports players, elite athletes, and when it comes down to it, entertainers.

Stay in your bloody lane, you're not given a soapbox to promote any damn issue you please just because you happen to have the stage for a moment.

I agree with this to a spiritual level. These people are paid millions to pass a ball around... to play a GAME. They think they're top of the world, but in actual fact their names mean nothing anywhere else in the world, and heck, even lose meaning to their "biggest fans" mere five years after retirement in most cases.

I find no disrespect with the kneeling. Yes it's during the national anthem, I understand. What value does a nation have if it doesn't value it's people? We all have the freedom of speech and expression in the US and it shouldn't be removed because it causes discomfort. Infact I encourage thoughts that cause discomfort.

Manu wrote:

SamThift wrote: I would not specifically say that I was offended that they have an opinion simply because they are just entertainers. I think JamesSand made a bit of that point more directly above. Though I wholly welcome their opinions and beliefs, but to the extent that mine matters just as much as theirs does thus my opinion is equal to each and every one of those, although I will not get anywhere near the attention they do.

What I get from JamesSand's implied point (I say implied because it is what I understood, I might be misreading) is that it is distasteful for people to "shove" politics down our throats. I don't disagree with it, I can understand how it can be off-putting to want to be entertained and having that turned into a political platform. However, a famous person leveraging their fame to get the "word" out is the natural consequence of the leadership that comes with fame: people close to him might be suffering and have no voice, and he is giving them a voice. The fact that he is famous does not make his opinion more valid, only more noticed.

The title of this post seems to assume that what he did was in fact disrespecting everyone, when I think that is not necessarily true. Did he disrespect everyone? Did he somehow bring dishonor to the country? Or was his gesture simply off-putting because it brought an ugly situation out into the open, precisely to the sort of shows we like to use as a drug, to get away from such ugliness? I can't help but feel his only "crime" was to make people feel unsettled.

I suppose "distasteful" and "off-putting" are rather accurate.

My main point of contention was that in the immediate case of activities surrounding the issue, they were "disrespected" by ONE person, and thus chose to disrespect the singing of the National Anthem and the display of the US Flag. So my leading question, evidenced by the subject line, was whether it is appropriate to fight something by doing the same thing.

We sort of tossed around the same concept in a different thread weeks ago, about whether violence to counter violence was appropriate.

Now I understand circumstances and specifics matter...but my largest frustration with the entire debacle is more around the question of why we continuously trend towards hypocrisy when these public issues and questions surround us?

After all...many of these players earn millions...yet promote the attention of socio-economic inequality...which depending on how you skinny the issue down, they are part of the income disparity issue itself...

JLSpinner wrote: I find no disrespect with the kneeling. Yes it's during the national anthem, I understand. What value does a nation have if it doesn't value it's people? We all have the freedom of speech and expression in the US and it shouldn't be removed because it causes discomfort. Infact I encourage thoughts that cause discomfort.

It is true. We can view the Anthem and the Flag as mere symbols...and since the veneration of those symbols, or lack-there-of varies depending on who we ask...we all assign different qualifications for "respect" and "disrespect".

Yet the immediate example was very nearly directly intended as an attitude of disrespect...that is the entire perceived point of these sorts of "protests"...just as if someone were to burn the flag as a form of protest, it carries an immediate notion of disrespect.

I am not questioning the value of their "free speech and expression"...just their choice of a means by which to express displeasure when a specific other well-known person openly disrespects them.

It seems rather childish to me that the whole thing has devolved into a battle of "Who can be more blatantly disrespectful"...and we all know how that turns out.