My teacher on Meditation

Desolous wrote: we get it htonyam, your school is superior, thank you.

"different strokes for different folks"

I never said his school was better or worse than any other.

I am just hoping to correct some common misconceptions.

All forms of meditation do not serve the same purpose, nor do they use the same methods. What applies to one school of meditation may or may not apply to another.

If some school or method of meditation is better or worse is something each seeker will have to decide for themselves.

I think it is good advice for any spiritual seeker as their first step to really clearly define what it is they want, and what they hope to achieve via their practice, and find teachers that have accomplished that goal.

That seems reasonable to me.

I am not judging your practice, Connor's practice, or anyone else's practice.

I am just trying to clear up some misconceptions.

Which misconceptions would that be Maynoth?

I didnt see anyone posting any...

There are many beginners here, so they need to start at an easy level...

Jestor wrote: Which misconceptions would that be Htonyam?

I didnt see anyone posting any...

There are many beginners here, so they need to start at an easy level...

I pointed them out here:
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/104759-my-teacher-on-meditation?limitstart=0&start=10#119619

They should research all the various forms of meditation, not just from various Buddhist or Taoist traditions either.

They should see what masters of these practices have accomplished and ask themselves honestly if that's what they also hope to achieve.


The place a beginner should start in my opinion is not by latching onto the first form of meditation they learn about.

The first step is defining their goal for meditation and practice in the first place. If they cannot clearly and accurately state what it is they hope to accomplish, they will remain a spiritual impulse shopper for the rest of their life.

Thinking clearly, defining clearly what it is you hope to achieve, and finding the best schools to help get you there, that's about as easy as it's going to get.

Once their goals for their practice are defined, their next step is to locate teachers and teachings of schools that have best accomplished their goal(s).

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to

Alice: I don't much care where.

The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.

The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.





Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

"What are you doing?

Why are you doing it?

Where is this going?

If you know, you’ll succeed.

If you don’t, you won’t.

That’s not just pretty talk, that’s the law."


Jed McKenna - Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

She doesnt know what she wanted the computer for, so, for the beginning, it can be assumed she doesnt need a gaming computer, a laptop, or really, any high end machine...

THis is how people get sold computers, the person there explains to them, that they need all this memory, and the monitor, and the periphials and before they know it, they just dropped two grand at Best Buy...

Where as somone who has some experience can say, "Well, Im not a gamer, but I do watch movies, and can get one cheaper by knowing what they want, and knowing Best Buy is not the right place to buy a computer for most of us...

If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

If I find out I want to be able to do pushups with two fingers, or move objects from across the room, then I will find teachers for that sort of stuff...

Currently, I have other things I am working on in my life...

See, the point I am at in my life, I have children, and a mortgage, and auto insurance, and a 75 year old Korean I assist, and in-laws, and other responsibilities than need attended to...

Im not dwelling into the more specialized areas of meditation... Maybe someday...

I was referring to misconceptions by members, not on the video...

As he sits plainly in view, and is well known, no offence, but why would I believe your opinions over his?

Well, enough on that... Sorry...

You, yourself keep saying in your reply to me, where you quoted your other post, "It may be true for his school"...

Does he say in there that it is true for all schools of thought on meditation?

I dont remember him saying that, so if I am wrong, I apologize in advance...

When I say "Martial Arts are XXXXX", I am speaking from the knowledge I have, on a subject I know...

If another instructor came up, and said "Nu-uh, martial arts are YYYYY!!!"... He is speaking from his knowledge....

Would you feel better if with every sentence, he said, "As to my schools train of thoughts on ____"?

This way not all meditational techniques are not lumped together?

Guess what?

That is what is meant, with every breath every one speaks with...

Candy is good...

(In my opinion) Candy is good...

Meditation is required...
(In my opinion) mediation is required (for a balanced life)...

For example:

1. (at time 1:07) "Meditation can be done in 5 or 10 minute sessions."

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.

Would be better wrote:

For example:

1. (at time 1:07) "Meditation (as I understand it, and teach it) can be done in 5 or 10 minute sessions."

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.

Does this help?

lol...

It like adding the "In bed" expression at the end of every sentence... Try that, see if it helps you tolerate this guys video...

lol, not the "in bed", but, remembering that he speaks from his experience, expressing his opinions...

Jestor wrote:

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

I am not sure if I follow exactly how this related to meditation.

Buying a computer without a sound card, designed only as a word processor running some custom word processor OS isn't going to let your mom download music to her mp3 player if that's what she wants to do.

Your mom needs education on all the various things a computer can do before she starts jumping into it, or at least I would think as much.

Back to meditation; no amount of Vipassana, Metta, etc. meditation leads to where I want to be.

That isn't a criticism of the practices, they are wonderful for their own purposes.

Jestor wrote:
If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

I'd have to disagree, what most people need is really up for them to decide.

Before they can decide, however they have to know what their options are.

You start by finding out what what each school of meditation leads to.

What have the masters of each school you are interested in accomplished?

What has it done for them?

Do I really want that for my life?

What is it I really hope to accomplish via meditation?

What is my end goal for practice?

These are questions that absolutely have to be answered at the start of your journey, otherwise you will just be fumbling through not knowing what it is you are doing, or why you are even doing it.

Jestor wrote:
why would I believe your opinions over his?

Because you have the capacity for logical, rational and critical thinking within you.

Nothing I've said is unreasonable. It should be common sense, but sadly it isn't.

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to

Alice: I don't much care where.

The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.

The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.





Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

"What are you doing?

Why are you doing it?

Where is this going?

If you know, you’ll succeed.

If you don’t, you won’t.

That’s not just pretty talk, that’s the law."


Jed McKenna - Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing

htonyam wrote:

Jestor wrote:

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

I am not sure if I follow exactly how this related to meditation.

Buying a computer without a sound card, designed only as a word processor running some custom word processor OS isn't going to let your mom download music to her mp3 player if that's what she wants to do.

Your mom needs education on all the various things a computer can do before she starts jumping into it, or at least I would think as much.

Back to meditation; no amount of Vipassana, Metta, etc. meditation leads to where I want to be.

That isn't a criticism of the practices, they are wonderful for their own purposes.

Jestor wrote:
If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

I'd have to disagree, what most people need is really up for them to decide.

Before they can decide, however they have to know what their options are.

You start by finding out what what each school of meditation leads to.

What have the masters of each school you are interested in accomplished?

What has it done for them?

Do I really want that for my life?

What is it I really hope to accomplish via meditation?

What is my end goal for practice?

These are questions that absolutely have to be answered at the start of your journey, otherwise you will just be fumbling through not knowing what it is you are doing, or why you are even doing it.

Jestor wrote:
why would I believe your opinions over his?

Because you have the capacity for logical, rational and critical thinking within you.

Nothing I've said is unreasonable. It should be common sense, but sadly it isn't.

In my experience, the best journeys start when you cannot see the destination. If I always knew where my experience would leave me when I started something I most likely would never start in the first place. I agree that some basic knowledge is necessary before starting anything but that doesn't mean you must know all of the options right when you begin. To truly appreciate success, one must truly appreciate failure. To truly appreciate knowledge, one must truly appreciate ignorance. You cannot expect to know all when you first begin. It is silly and won't do you any good. You must learn enough to get you started and then continue learning as your motivations mature.

May the Force be with you,
Rai

htonyam wrote:

Jestor wrote:

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

I am not sure if I follow exactly how this related to meditation.

Buying a computer without a sound card, designed only as a word processor running some custom word processor OS isn't going to let your mom download music to her mp3 player if that's what she wants to do.

Your mom needs education on all the various things a computer can do before she starts jumping into it, or at least I would think as much.

Sure she does...

But does she want it for \banking? She doesnt know...

Facebook? Yea, maybe, whats Facebook?

Email? Well, yea...

Watching Cat videos? Of course...

Becoming a Jedi? Writing a code for a cat screen saver? Running a milling machine? No, none of these...

Some people dont know what exactly what they want... They want the possibilities...

As far as my story about my mom? Its a simile for meditation...

I tell stories for comparison...

My mom doesnt know why she wants a computer, only that "all the cool kids have one", so therefore she wants to see what all the hubbub is about...

Here, we deal with enlightenment of some sort, and recommend meditation...

We can only recommend what we know...

Back to meditation; no amount of Vipassana, Metta, etc. meditation leads to where I want to be.

That isn't a criticism of the practices, they are wonderful for their own purposes.

Sure...

And, a beginner needs to start somewhere...

Jestor wrote:
If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

I'd have to disagree, what most people need is really up for them to decide.

Before they can decide, however they have to know what their options are.

You start by finding out what what each school of meditation leads to.

What have the masters of each school you are interested in accomplished?

What has it done for them?

Do I really want that for my life?

What is it I really hope to accomplish via meditation?

What is my end goal for practice?

These are questions that absolutely have to be answered at the start of your journey, otherwise you will just be fumbling through not knowing what it is you are doing, or why you are even doing it.

See, I dont think you understand...

People dont come here to meditate...

The come here to be Jedi, as we, TOTJO, define it... DOnt like how we do it? There are other sites, and if they dont suit you, start your own... Or, work your way up through the ranks and make change here though TOTJO, itself...

So, as Jedi teachers, we train Jedi... Meditation is a part of that... We, the teachers help them try to understand why they should meditate... What the benefits of meditation (that we show/expalin/teach) are, as we (teach) see it (in our opinion)...

All you are doing, is confusing them...

There are always choices, options, different opinions and ways of going about stuff...

Just as the goals desired will be different...

Your posts, merely slow down, and cause people to question, what they want, and whether this is the right path for them, and they should question, but not because of whether we teach all the right meditations or not, but whether this, ALL OF THIS (I mean being a Jedi by TOTJO standards), is for them...

When we teach them stillness, they may want more, and if we do not have that, then they will seek it elsewhere, if they truly want it... Which is who you are looking for, yes? The serious student...

First, the mind need quieted, yes? Even in your school of thought, right?

SO, lets teach these folks new to meditation, how to do that...

They have to understand the steps to get there, and honestly, as an instructor, you fall short there... You send videos, and links, but dont help those asking...

Even I ask you, so this is from first hand knowledge... You just talk all vague... No direction...

And students need direction...

Im usually a nice, tolerant guy, but I am not going to debate your practices here, and further posts that do, will be removed...

If you want to debate types of meditation, and how we do it here, please, begin a thread... You know I will come talk about it...... I LOVE conversation...

Connors link, by your admission, is excellent...

So, lets not cloud it up for those trying to figure this out...

If you prefer to not open up a thread, thats ok too...

I'll take a page from your book... Feel free to PM me...

But, and I am making this a sticking point... I will remove any more debate...

Jestor wrote:
why would I believe your opinions over his?

Because you have the capacity for logical, rational and critical thinking within you.

Nothing I've said is unreasonable. It should be common sense, but sadly it isn't.

Because...

Common sense implies that it is accepted by many...

And your theories are not... :lol:

They are not necessarily wrong... :huh:

Just not commonly accepted, therefore, not common sense either...

This, is common sense...

Oh, it's you! I didn't realize that Maynoth was htonyam. I should have, though.

Anyway, dude, he's not talking about your type of meditation. He is extremely specific on what he means by meditation. Meditation is concentration. That's it.

What you're speaking of, from the realm of one of the ONLY schools that still does this (10 people, yes?), is deeper than "pure" meditation. This is energy work.

He's not talking about energy work, yeah?

The video is not a lecture on the content of his path, its a discussion about one way to consider what meditation is and how to orient oneself to beginning practise. Not to mention I thought he was using the concept of mind to represent whatever faculties might constitute being/awareness and in this regard his talk was interesting and showed great outreach to different people. I'm not sure how you could argue with what he said in the context he was saying it..... but if split up line into line and criticized them in isolation for the purposes of making a re-entrance and pushing your own path, with your name spelled backwards, perhaps consider an intro post and creating a journal instead!!???