I think i may be going over to the dark side

Well then, what's the difference between the Light side and the Dark side, because it's certaintly not good and evil.

You know I was thinking that there is no such thing as total darkness. The background radiation left over from the Big Bang is about three degrees over absolute zero. That's small true but we can measure it even though our eyes cannot see it.

In levels of light where a human would perceive only dark an owl or cat can see.

Nature will not tolerate nothingness either. Even in the emptiest of space there are still virtual particles appearing and disappearing relentlessly.

How do we know something is truly random? 4159265358 looks random until you realize it's the 2nd through the 11th digits of Pi.

Do flowers fly? Yes they do. Many species of flowering plants cannot reproduce without bees and the bees cannot live without the nectar so a bee is a much a part of a flower as its stem, leaves and roots!

Two dimensional thinking is where these problems arise.

The Force is doing just fine and it's perfect. Only when we try and bind it with limited knowledge and the limits of labels does it get confusing and argumentative.

Labels and measures are wonderful tools but terrible masters.

Angelus wrote:

Well then, what's the difference between the Light side and the Dark side, because it's certaintly not good and evil.

Disclaimer: I am untrained and not of the order.. yet. The following is an opinion and I'll admit to not reading the rest of the thread save for Br. John's last post above this one.

The difference between light and dark is hidden within personal intention. An action can be in the name of the greater good but if there's ignoble personal gain within your intention, then it is not of the \"light side\".

Now that's not to say that all personal gains are of the \"dark side\" either. Everyone benefits from the greater good. I'll spare you the lecture about the evolutionary development of ethics and why \"good\" and \"evil\" became descriptors according to mythological scholars and evolutionary sociologists. But know that if you do the right thing in the context of more than just yourself, in most cases you engender trust and ensure the society continues to survive.

Actions against those two basic things, either subtly or blatantly, lead towards a \"dark\" path.

Thanks and hopefully this helps
Tatsujin

Br. John wrote:

You know I was thinking that there is no such thing as total darkness. The background radiation left over from the Big Bang is about three degrees over absolute zero. That's small true but we can measure it even though our eyes cannot see it.

In levels of light where a human would perceive only dark an owl or cat can see.

Nature will not tolerate nothingness either. Even in the emptiest of space there are still virtual particles appearing and disappearing relentlessly.

How do we know something is truly random? 4159265358 looks random until you realize it's the 2nd through the 11th digits of Pi.

Do flowers fly? Yes they do. Many species of flowering plants cannot reproduce without bees and the bees cannot live without the nectar so a bee is a much a part of a flower as its stem, leaves and roots!

Two dimensional thinking is where these problems arise.

The Force is doing just fine and it's perfect. Only when we try and bind it with limited knowledge and the limits of labels does it get confusing and argumentative.

Labels and measures are wonderful tools but terrible masters.

This post made me think. For me, thinking usually has mixed results

There's an old socratic/philosophy argument that goes something like this:

There are no absolutes.

(Problem is you just stated an absolute, thereby countering your argument).

There are no absolutes save the fact that there are no absolutes.

(Sounds nice in practice but to say that there are no absolutes save one still creates that absolute.)

When you think about it, logic dictates that there must be absolutes at some point in nature, but those points are temporary and thankfully elusive. \"The perfect annoyance\" would indeed be quite annoying if it lasted very long. The perfect Force no doubt exists, save for the fact that people are mucking about with it all the time, it's likely fickle since we don't understand it fully/never will, and the perfect thing would be so incredible that once people saw it they'd never strive for improvement any more.

We'd either be so awestruck into contrite abeyance never to try anything again or so enraptured with it that we'd never look outside again (kind of like World of Warcraft).. I jest. This obviously runs counter to about a hundred thousand years worth of technological innovation and the general concept of evolution.

Ultimately, it's these types of issues lacking congruence, that eventually lead to all things we don't like and strive to improve upon.

I'm sure there are other ways to look at your post as well. Quantum Theory comes to mind, but I'm not a physicist (yet) and not qualified to wax poetic in that direction.

Still, good stuff Br. John

Best,
3.14159265

it's funny that you mention quantum physics/mechanics as br. john has posted on that subject a few times....they're tied into biocentricity....interesting name btw...tatsu = dragon....much like ryu can be used for dragon as well(or can also be used for \"the way\")....jin = person....

Thanks,

The Japanese language is one of my favorite things and fits nicely (ironically enough) into this discussion. The symbol for Ryu can when paired with other symbols (Jin being one) can mean dragon. Tatsu tends to stand symbolically alone when used in that way but when combined with Jin more formally tends to mean \"expert\".

It is what it is. Fluency in Japanese is not one of my expert level skills, but I hope it will be in time.

i tried to learn it years ago when i was stationed overseas....tough language especially since they have multiple pronounciations for many of their words..add to it 2 alphabets...i know a few words and phrases...i would like to learn it though...

the way to learn a language is to use and speak it - thats why im fluent in gibberish

All this talk about absolutes, logic etc etc etc etc - ALL of these are human concepts - and there is so much more to life and the universe than humans - yet as a species - we generally fail to accept this (let alone tolerate the idea)

here is another thought - absolute zero is only so because we say its so

E = M C C (C squared) - yet it doesnt 100% of the time and certainly not outside of our planet

I suspect this is what limits us in terms of physics - and its our 'physics' thatss probably keeping us firmly fixed to our own planet

We as creatures naturally work using base ten - if you dont know what that means - our maths works on a basis of the number teen - we like it cos its natural to us - we (normally) have ten fingers and toes.

But what if the maths outside of earth dont work with base ten? what of bas 9 or 11 or any other number - or even base 4.3 works elsewhere?

The point im getting at is nothing is 100% absolute in 100% of circumstances - but as humans - I think we gain some form of comfort from 'absolutes' or certainty or even just attaching a name or label to things

maybe its part of inner control freak (again, another human thing)

MTFBWY - A

I think the point that I was making is this (althought some of the loose threads would be fun to spin off on...),

We are all in the Grey area. It would be extremely difficult to be totally light or totally dark.

To keep balance, we have to weave back and forth. Like my tightrope walker anology. I can not walk a straight line.... I weave a little.

Mother Teresa lived predominatly in the light.
Charles Manson lived predominatly in the dark.

The list would be long to list sides people were on.

Did Mother Teresa ever do anything wrong? Lie? Anything?
Did Charles Manson ever do anything nice? Buy flowers? give change to a beggar?

I wAs merely stating that the \"line\" between the light and dark, (in my opinion), must exist. Due to the fact that where the dominance shifts between the two. Althought, as I stated, it is a very fine line and noone could remain completely and solely, one or the other....

\"That's all I have to say about that...\", Forrest Gump
(Have I beat this horse enough?)...

And I don't know I'm right. It is an opinion. Did we answer the original post?...lol
-MTFBWU-

Mother teresa was apparently quite a nasty person at times

But im sure every saint had moments of being a sinner

MTFBWY - A