"God Hates Gays"

Arkda Asterma wrote: Again it is obvious V-Tog that my clear anti-religious opinion has somehow offended your personal religious stance, which considering how such a tollerance stance is the rhetoric of most religions, I'm rather disapointed.

You seem very sure that TOTJO is a church, well that is for debate but let me remind you that the definition of a church is 'a place where a body of like minded people gather'. With that in mind and putting our religous opinions to one side, I still believe and have faith in a greater force that binds this universe and as such my beliefs are probably not that different to yours, I don't know!!

However you personal religous faith is nothing to do with anyone but you.

that is true, but personal religious faith is different from the faith as a community

and that's what I think she is saying

we all believe in the force
that is the whole community belief, if not I am interested if you have an alternative

but V-tog who interprets this belief the abrahamic definition, which is not the same in one respect, but in dynamic it is the same as interpreting it through paganism or buddhism or even pureland rite

and that dynamic combined with the belief of the force is what makes us like minded individuals,who gather in this website

so by your own definition, like Ryujin said... we are a church

you don't have to believe it if you don't feel comfortable and you can interpret TOTJO as you wish

but please respect the majority here who do believe that

Well, this is gone a bit off topic, but here's my answer to the OP:

You want to know how to refute bible-based arguments against homosexuality. You also mentioned that you belong to a church that has no problem with it, and appoints gay clergy.

Here's the logical solution: ask your pastor or other church leader about the bible verse in question. Ask them why your church feels that way as opposed to the other. And that's your answer. A really simple solution.

Just as a side note, my personal feelings on the issue are not involved in this answer or in any of my posts.

Star Forge wrote: Well, this is gone a bit off topic, but here's my answer to the OP:

You want to know how to refute bible-based arguments against homosexuality. You also mentioned that you belong to a church that has no problem with it, and appoints gay clergy.

Here's the logical solution: ask your pastor or other church leader about the bible verse in question. Ask them why your church feels that way as opposed to the other. And that's your answer. A really simple solution.

Just as a side note, my personal feelings on the issue are not involved in this answer or in any of my posts.

here is how I see it

the real evidence against it are from Leviticus, the rules of the priest

and in the gospel Jesus said that The rule of Moses and Elijah were relevant
and he criticised the pharisees and the priests

continiuing, Moses had a very specific approach and that can be seen in his writing, or how he is written

but Leviticus has a very different style, so I doubt moses wrote that

I think there is nothing wrong with Homosexuality, I either embrace LGBT, or in the past I said nothing, because it was their time to talk.

If you are a christian who follows leviticus as evidence against homosexuality, I encourage you to look at the documentary hypothesis and give me your thoughts on that

Westboro is a family of lawyers and they protest controversial topics to provoke an attack so they can sue and get rich. They protest at funerals of dead soldiers and all kinds of disgusting events so they can get a reaction and sue.

Whyte Horse said it how it is. Westboro is a family of attorneys, Fred Phelps having been an civil rights attorney back in the day, which means also that he was probably a pinko as well. Kinda funny. They protest to get attacked and get money, and represent no trend within Christianity.

This is honestly my whole stance on the whole issue of gayness and Christianity, and it's not a complicated one. Different churches have different theology. If you believe that gay marriages and gay clergy belong in the church, attend a church that does. If you don't, attend one that doesn't. I believe in separation of religion and government, so I don't think the church should be involved in the secular gay marriage debate, no matter which side they are on.

Also, if a church has reservations against homosexuality, it's their right. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. My belief is, that as long as a church is not preaching their doctrine outside of the church, or doing Phelps-like antics, you shouldn't care.

Do what you want in your church, and I'll do what I want in mine.