Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Fabulous, Revan.

It would seem that the Chicago area also holds the most Jedi. But, I'll keep my opinion that Texas would be fine too due to there being 5 members, only outnumbered by one in Illinois. However, taking Kit's suggestion, Chicago would also be fun! Maybe outside Chicago, of course, with that midwest area feel. I live in Indiana, so that could work for me personally (not that that's too important). IJRS will be building one in Colorado too, which could be a good road trip for those texas people. mmm.

Alright! Well, fun discussion everybody.

And knowing my husband, we'll be moving back to Texas when I retire if not before LOL. And probably the same area as you three too

Kamizu wrote: And knowing my husband, we'll be moving back to Texas when I retire if not before LOL. And probably the same area as you three too

What area? I lived right outside of Ft. Hood when I lived in Texas.

Revan Falton wrote:

Kamizu wrote: And knowing my husband, we'll be moving back to Texas when I retire if not before LOL. And probably the same area as you three too

What area? I lived right outside of Ft. Hood when I lived in Texas.

Dallas. Husband grew up in Oak Cliff. He swears he's going to take over his parents' house and move them to a retirement home haha. I personally prefer the smaller towns but I do miss the availability of larger cities. We were stationed out in Abilene for nine years. I just want a horse

I think an ideal location would be nowhere near a military facility, power generation, volcano, sinkholes, fault line or telecommunications facility... or too low on the coastline. While out in the woods would be great, I guess the issues are dangerous wildlife, bushfires, and medical evacuation/response options.

I was thinking the other day folk should get together and renovate property for profit. Give somewhere to train and make money - money needed to survive and undertake other charitable work. Savings can be established at the same time, and those folk get experience in building, so that after half a dozen projects they could acquire land and actually do something really cool with it, instead of just having a camping site or scout hall to visit.... though that would be fine too of course.

This way, each project is training for Temple building and saving to it, and you can inject a little Jedi-ness into the world one property at a time!!! I guess its about priorities and risk v reward. If the team got sick of doing it then they might have enough saved to keep the last project as a temple.

Jedi in this thread wrote: a lot of things about Texas

I still have at least two friends and three family members demanding I show up in that state sometime. Maybe I should.

If I may offer my thoughts on the matter.

I believe TOTJO is as it should be. A small community of philosophers, spiritualists, and academics. Through our nonconformity to a standard belief system, our community permits and encourages the growth and self expression of the individuals within it. Our individual beliefs contribute to intellectual conflict, which results in growth of all involved in said conflict once those involved take the time to open their minds and consider the opinions and life experience of others, and learn from them.

True, we do have a doctrine, creed, and set of principals which the members of this community mutually follow and believe in, however there is no demanded belief in any particular deity, no way to worship the force (no worship is even required). There is no concept of sin, and there are no taboos as far as what you can do with you life or your body.

TOTJO is a magnificently unique place, in that it not only encourages, but facilitates free thinking, free speech, and free expression. There are few other communities in existence so open to such a diverse range of beliefs, that still function to the degree which the TOTJO community does.

But, I feel as though I must offer this warning to those considering to expand the temple.

I make no claims at superiority or elevated status above the other members of this community. I will only say that I have experienced a great deal in my time, and have learned things that most people will likely never come to be aware of, much less develop an understanding and appreciation for.

TOTJOs ambitions are understandable, but I must warn that if pursued, will end up resulting in it's demise.

If a temple is established, and a congregation gathered to support that temple, in time it will follow the same path as all other faiths. Conflicts over differences in belief and personal opinion will cause rifts within the temple, which will result in certian followers splitting off to create a temple centered around their mutual beliefs, and then within that new temple the same process will occur, and so on ad infinitum.

You only need do a basic look into the history of any organized faith to see I am telling you the truth. Catholism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc... All were started around a set of beliefs which were basic and mutual, and diversity otherwise encouraged. But as time progressed, more and more splitting occured resulting in more and more sub-religions centered around the same set of beliefs, but with a generous helping of dogma and intolerance of nonconforming beliefs thrown in.

Lastly, I will leave you with this.

"That which was made, shall be destroyed, and through fire shall be made again. You will rise out of the ashes, a beacon to those who survive. You will bring the world into a new age of peace and prosperity, working with your bretherin to lay a foundation so that such a tragedy does not befall them again. And as the world is remade, so too will be humanity. But you are just one, fragile and mortal. In time, you shall pass from the world, leaving in your wake a memory, a legacy. You will be remembered first as a hero, then, as a legend, and in time as a God.

It is the cruelest fate, to have a message that meant well, and see it made wicked and unwise. Those principals which were set to encourage life, will be used to justify taking it.

That which once was, shall be again."

Is the goal to immortalize the faith? If Jediism is supposed to die, it's very 'Jedi' to respect that.

All the worst things come from us trying to prolong something forever...

Kohadre, it is something I warn about, too quick of expansion, and boy, can I slow a project down, lol...

I think growth should be organic, and slow, as to establish a solid foundation...

Death is the way of all things...

Ida's, people, plants, animals, and as much as we love TOTJO, it too will end...

But, I also am reminded that "forced" change has gotten us some wonderful advancements too....

Delicate balance, it is.....

Kohadre, very wise words, and sound advice. My question those is this. If Totjo is as open and accepting as you say it is (and I agree whole heartedly), what would building a physical location would make the congregation splinter off? If the same doctrine etc is observed and put in place in the physical Temple as it is here, where would the need arise to leave, build a new Temple with different views? The reason for the off breaks of those religions were due to them not accepting others and putting such strict rules etc upon its congregation etc. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.

Revan Falton wrote: Kohadre, very wise words, and sound advice. My question those is this. If Totjo is as open and accepting as you say it is (and I agree whole heartedly), what would building a physical location would make the congregation splinter off? If the same doctrine etc is observed and put in place in the physical Temple as it is here, where would the need arise to leave, build a new Temple with different views? The reason for the off breaks of those religions were due to them not accepting others and putting such strict rules etc upon its congregation etc. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.

Thank you Revan

To answer your questions,

If the same doctrine, creed, etc that is observed here at the online TOTJO temple would be put in place at a physical temple, with that physical temple continuing the customs of acceptance and openess where diversity is concerned, there would undoubtly be a great length of time in which the essence of the TOTJO community would be preserved.

But eventually, be it a decade or a century, or perhaps even a millennia down the line, inevitable things will happen. There will be a leader or person of influence appointed to a position within the temple who would have the authority to affect certain change. Eventually, there will be a particular leader or person of influence who wants to change certain aspects of the temple based on their, or the congregations desires. Once things start to change, there will be the inevitable rifts within the congregation that lead to events described in my previous post. Or, there could be some kind of corruption within the temple itself, which could cause a similar event.

Even with an acceptance of diversity, there may be members of the congregation who want things to be "their way". They will have some kind of controlling element within their personality, that will not tolerate anything less than "their way" being followed. These particular individuals would eventually either effect their viewpoints as the new standard of the temple, or start a new temple of their own, promoting their particular version of Jediism.

There are many other examples I could give, but I hope the ones mentioned above answer your question.

It would seem that the Chicago area also holds the most Jedi. But, I'll keep my opinion that Texas would be fine too due to there being 5 members, only outnumbered by one in Illinois. However, taking Kit's suggestion, Chicago would also be fun!

As a resident of Chicago, I would gladly welcome the building of a physical location. In fact with my offline group of 15 regularly active members,(Chicago Jedi), we are in the process of becoming a non-profit. That will be one step on our way to something physical.

If what makes sense for right now is the construction of a physical building and the expansion of our membership then that is what we ought to do. Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.

Let's assume that we do create something great and that in time it does indeed start breaking down (through separation or corruption etc), well that is for Jedi of that time to contend with, it won't change any of the Good we are able to do now will it?

If at some other now what is needed is for our Temple to separate itself then that's what our Temple will do, it isn't like such things haven't already happened in the wider Jedi community, including at our Temple. If we wish to invest in the future to try and prevent the worst parts of any "split" then there are steps we can do also, by creating writings and book and such (which will doubtless be done in due course) to address the points that might be brought up.

If every organisation got hung up on what "might" happen in its future with regards to abandoning the original virtues, then every organisation ought to just stop all its functioning right now.

Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.

Sorry for the offtopic, but someone's going to have to explain to me how not worrying about the future is a good thing (or worrying is NOT a good thing). Sure it sounds cool, but in real life, I am under the impression that the people who don't think about the future are the criminals, the polluters, the warmongers, the politicians, etc....

Thinking and worrying are rather different.

never thought of it this way, how do they differ?

I was googling to find a snappy definition, I came across this weird blog but I basically agree with how they put it here, however tortured the phrasing:

Thinking going by its definition has mainly two objectives. 1. To generate ideas or find solutions to existing problems, and 2. to formulate the generated ideas or solutions into plans or strategies that can be implemented. Combining these two objectives, the essence of thinking is to birth new ideas or find solutions to existing problems and converting the ideas generated or solutions found into workable plans. This is the sole essence of thinking; anything short of these two is worrying. If after thinking you are unable to draw up a plan of action based on the ideas or solutions you generated, then you've just finished worrying and have not been thinking.

THINKING vs WORRYING

"Worry is like rocking a chair it gives you something to do but won't take you anywhere." Unknown

Worrying is "thinking" aimlessly; not having a definite purpose or objective in mind. It's focusing on a problem and all its negative attributes rather than focusing on possible solutions.

http://reflectionsinverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/when-thinking-becomes-worrying-how-to.html

ren wrote:

Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.

Sorry for the offtopic, but someone's going to have to explain to me how not worrying about the future is a good thing (or worrying is NOT a good thing). Sure it sounds cool, but in real life, I am under the impression that the people who don't think about the future are the criminals, the polluters, the warmongers, the politicians, etc....

I was very careful to state:

If we wish to invest in the future to try and prevent the worst parts of any "split" then there are steps we can do also, by creating writings and book and such (which will doubtless be done in due course) to address the points that might be brought up.

Because as you rightly point out one cannot ignore the direction that one goes in, so steps can be taken to minimise future damages, but that shouldn't be done at the expense of the Now.

Basic Teaching 3 wrote: 3. Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving. I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.

Akkarin I guess i meant "worry" in a stronger, more general way, not specific to anypotential splits (i don't think there's a way to predict/prevent that to be honest). But at the same time, I think people tend to make rash decisions... I can certainly think of a few instances since I resigned from my offices here where I thought things hadn't been thought through properly...

I guess I am "worried" about the whole "think in the now" train of thought. There is no point in this. What happens now is necessarily the result of the past, and this can't be changed. Whilst spending your "now" time thinking about what will happen in the future means you base your near-future actions on what its future implications will be (based on lessons from the past). Sure that means you are waisting time that could be spent doing other things right now.... But I just don't see a point in doing this without a particular future goal to reach. The value of any action now is what it actually achieves later, and not the intention behind it.

Revan Falton wrote: If the same doctrine etc is observed and put in place in the physical Temple as it is here, where would the need arise to leave, build a new Temple with different views?

This may be misrepresenting Kohadre horribly, and if so I apologize, but I think I can sum up the point being made with a simple question. Once this physical Temple is built, who gets a key to the door?

Inevitably, someone or some specific people will have more control or influence over the building itself. While it does not have to result in corruption, it very easily could. As a member, am I allowed to sleep there if I am homeless? Who decides this? Who is responsible for the electric bill? If I am, do I get to decide if we run the air conditioning or not? If I want to use a room as a gym and another wants to use it as a library, who decides which use is more "Jedi"? If I choose to continue to visit this online Temple exclusively, does that make me less "Jedi" than the those who actually visit the physical Temple? Will those Jedi think less of me for not going there?

The advantage of this virtual space online is that major changes or minor adjustments are both more feasible and less permanent. People can come and go as they please without a gatekeeper locking the doors. Having internet access is all that is required to be here, and it puts every Jedi here on more equal footing. There are certainly those here who are responsible for establishing, maintaining, and paying for this site who might have some greater measure of control or privilege, but to this point they have proven themselves to be worthy of my trust and they have my full confidence that they have the best interest of TOTJO in mind.

I am not opposed to a physical Temple, but I personally believe we already share a planet as a place of worship and gathering, and far too many of us take our natural environment as it is for granted.