Copy of Post in the Knight's Forum: Election of Knights as Advisory Council

Maybe someone should clarify if the apprentice advisor represents all apprentices before we make the call?

The reason why I'm suggesting TM nominate their Apprentice for the seat is because if there's any level of unreadiness there's likely to be a confrontation that is not necessary. If an apprentice is nominated by others and the teaching Master says no what is likely to be the outcome of that?

Leah Starspectre wrote: Why not trust the knights to make the vote, then if you feel the advisor is unsuitable, voice your concerns?

For the same reason I didn't call my mother to find out what was for dinner every night in college.

Speaking of which, Apprenticeship is kinda like college: you're a student, you're learning some really crazy stuff, and it's the best time to make absolutely poor (or great!) decisions and learn from them. You have the freedom an initiate doesn't have, and the safety net a knight doesn't. I'm not advocating being irresponsible, but what'll it hurt to let lil' Timmy choose his student council rep if it's only one non-voting seat?

Yeah, if it doesn't work out, you get a short term with someone that doesn't fit the job, and they either wait it out or drop the chair. And yeah, it's a little more set-up time than getting the Knights to do it. But on the other side of the coin, you've entrusted apprentices to make a decision without mommy or daddy telling them what's best. You're actively teaching them leadership: they're going to look for those qualities in other apprentices and choose one to represent their entire "class". You're letting them feel included in ways a simple advisory seat won't on its own.

There are so many benefits to this idea.

steamboat28 wrote: For the same reason I didn't call my mother to find out what was for dinner every night in college.

Speaking of which, Apprenticeship is kinda like college: you're a student, you're learning some really crazy stuff, and it's the best time to make absolutely poor (or great!) decisions and learn from them. You have the freedom an initiate doesn't have, and the safety net a knight doesn't. I'm not advocating being irresponsible, but what'll it hurt to let lil' Timmy choose his student council rep if it's only one non-voting seat?

Yeah, if it doesn't work out, you get a short term with someone that doesn't fit the job, and they either wait it out or drop the chair. And yeah, it's a little more set-up time than getting the Knights to do it. But on the other side of the coin, you've entrusted apprentices to make a decision without mommy or daddy telling them what's best. You're actively teaching them leadership: they're going to look for those qualities in other apprentices and choose one to represent their entire "class". You're letting them feel included in ways a simple advisory seat won't on its own.

There are so many benefits to this idea.

Your analogy doesn't seem terribly apt - and it is a little condescending. And it assumes that the knights/Council don't know anything about their apprentices and who they think might be a valuable voice in the Council.

At this point, we don't know if the advisor is meant to represent the apprentices as a whole. If they do, then it makes sense for the apprentices to choose (or at least have a large say in) their representative. If not, why go through all the rigmarole?

What's condescending is the concept that Apprentices should be happy leaving the Knights to make all their decisions for them.

Rosalyn J wrote: The reason why I'm suggesting TM nominate their Apprentice for the seat is because if there's any level of unreadiness there's likely to be a confrontation that is not necessary. If an apprentice is nominated by others and the teaching Master says no what is likely to be the outcome of that?

I can see that. But I feel the apprentice body as a whole wouldn't nominate someone they didn't feel was good for the position. Sometimes we grow by getting into something we don't know if we can handle. Other times we learn by getting in over our heads and we realize that kind of job isn't for us.

They'll have support. And I feel that if the master and apprentice are that far separated in their goals there might be more issues in the relationship. And not that they're kids, but sometimes it's best to recommend and let them make their own mistakes.

It's a decision that should be made together, but ultimately accepted or turned down by the apprentice

steamboat28 wrote: What's condescending is the concept that Apprentices should be happy leaving the Knights to make all their decisions for them.

AH, so it's anarchy then? Overthrow the establishment?

You all should know that we're not doing anything about The Apprentice seat until the knights are all chosen and settled in

Perhaps it's beudenr to focus on knight elections and then figure put the apprentice rep part after?

Firewolf wrote: Perhaps it's beudenr to focus on knight elections and then figure put the apprentice rep part after?

After the knights are elected and settled in we'll decide the apprentice issue.