Texas Massacre and 214 other mass shootings in 2022

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31 May 2022 03:33 #368411 by Alethea Thompson
Also while I’m here- Teaching the basic fundamentals of marksmanship isn’t difficult. Just because your wife didn’t decide to take up learning how to do that stuff doesn’t mean the rest of us are unskilled.

I know plenty of NON-MILITARY women that are fantastic hunters. I know PLENTY of men who are inept at using a any weapons simply because they didn’t invest time into it. They had other things they were interested in.

It’s all a matter of what floats someone’s boat.

Gather at the River,
Setanaoko Oceana
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31 May 2022 05:01 #368412 by Rosalyn J
It seems that 80% of children are being raised in single parent households singlemotherguide.com/single-mother-statistics/
But I don't think that's the only contributing factor.
I think maybe these articles may help contextualize the discussion going on here:
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I don't know enough about school shootings to make any sort of cogent argument, but I think it is bigger than "raise strong individuals"
The two articles I read seem to suggest there is more at issue than that.

If I were to hazard a guess, here are some things I believe might be contributing factors:

It used to be that we knew our neighbors. Now we are only known on social media and now only if we can keep people entertained/keep their attention. In the last school shooting (texas) this individual posted pictures of his guns and tagged someone with more followers than him hoping (I believe) to get more publicity. Social media, despite its purported purpose, is actually making us more lonely and disconnected One only has value if one has clout on social media. We don't really know how to make genuine connections. We spend so much time on social media/the internet, that we never really get out of that mind frame once we get offline and have to go to school. Plus, what does social media give us the opportunity to do? Create silos and shut out contrary opinions. The consequence of this is the inability to tolerate other people's perspectives and socially engage.
We aren't creating communities like we used to. Forgive the back in my day but back in my day one had a group of neighborhood friends that one grew up around. There were plenty of latchkey kids when I grew up, but it was understood (at least where I was raised) that discipline was a community responsibility and that raising a child took a village

Now, some questions:
What is the effect of economic insecurity on home life?
What about the rate at which men are imprisoned (some of them while innocent I might add (see the justice project))?

Anyway, let's look at the solution to one of these problems
foreverfamilies.byu.edu/father-abandonme...ity%2C%20and%20abuse .

As Jedi then, is it our responsibility to provide mentorship and/or that extended network to those who may be without a male role model?

Pax Per Ministerium
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31 May 2022 08:21 #368413 by Alethea Thompson
So much this, Rosalyn. In a very recent group (Old Guard members). I have had the honor of being part of- I noticed just how strong that community building could theoretically be if we worked on it in our respective Jedi spaces. I also noticed that the majority of that group are in the generations before me.

I think the way that social media targets is to make us addicted to its content is a major factor in how we process the world around us. We’re drawn in, as both marketing tools and marketed persons. So we don’t take time at truly communicating with people. We effectively become NPCs of the world around us.

Gather at the River,
Setanaoko Oceana

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31 May 2022 10:55 - 31 May 2022 10:56 #368417 by River
I've been thinking about this thread.
I had trouble sleeping sleeping last night because of this thread. Some of that was just because I was contemplating what my beliefs are and what's informing them and if I feel like there are some I'd like to change or at least challenge. But if I'm completely honest, some of my sleeplessness was because some of the posts scared me. I wasn't afraid of the ideas in the posts, or the violent incidents that sparked this thread (or at least, not any more afraid than I was before this thread existed). I was feeling afraid of the people who were writing the posts, and that's a pretty disturbing feeling to have in a faith community. Some of the ideas expressed, and how they were expressed, honestly felt a little like watching early Elliot Rodgers videos to me. I don't think that specifically accusing huge swaths of humanity for the failings of a few, no matter how horrific those failings were, serves any purpose other than alienating people, possibly frightening them, and making it pretty unlikely that they will be willing to listen to your message.

In regard to that message, another thing that made my gut tighten in fear is what read to me as unchecked sexism. Just because one woman has chosen not to handle weapons, doesn't mean no women can. Just because one man is an excellent marksman, doesn't mean all men are. What does being able to handle any given weapon have to do with how good a person you are, anyway? What about trans people in this scenario? Is a transwoman gonna wind up raising a child who knows how to use a gun but is afraid to? Does a transman's child enjoy some weapons but only blades under 6 inches and handguns that will fit into a cute clutch? What about the kids of nonbinary parents? Do they just spin in circles with a doll in one hand and a water gun in the other? Of course not. It's a ridiculous notion that the biological sex or the gender identity of parents has that much influence over whether a child grows up respecting the sanctity of life or not. It's not about who does the teaching, it's about what's taught.

What's between your legs has nothing to do with how well you can handle a weapon, or how well you can pass on values to the next generation. It doesn't even have anything to do with which values you pass down. There are some amazing men who were raised by single mothers. There are some amazing women who were raised by single fathers. Phenomenal people have been raised in every possible mix of family scenarios, including single parents, both parents, two parents of the same gender, more than two parents, grandparents, foster parents, aunts, uncles, aunts and uncles, older siblings... From what I can see, the key is attentiveness, not who is giving the attention. If a child is cared for and knows it, if they are guided and appropriately corrected when it's necessary, if professional help is sought as needed... those are the things that I understand as being determining factors in incidents like the murders in Uvalde. Kids who are neglected amd isolated wind up making up their own value systems, and when you add early trauma to the mix (another common trait in many mass shooters) sometimes those systems are really screwed up.


Sources to check out:
"Two Professors Found What Creates a Mass Shooter. Will Politicians Pay Attention?"
www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/2...hooters-q-a-00035762

"A Radical New Look at Mass Shooters. Why They Do It and How to Stop Them"
med.virginia.edu/ciag/a-radical-new-look...nd-how-to-stop-them/

"Op-Ed: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here’s what we’ve learned about the shooters"
www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-04...y-mass-shooters-data
Last edit: 31 May 2022 10:56 by River.
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31 May 2022 16:34 #368424 by Rex
Bracketing aside the gender/sex issue (which I think is relevant because terrorists tend to be represented by one gender), I think we're giving cop out answers to the cause. Like Ros mentioned, the fact that many are raised by single mothers (or guardians generally), can be attributed to sampling or many other issues. Additionally, many shooters (particularly those who streamed their attacks) showed a level of weapon handling that implied they were raised around firearms and likely were brought up to respect them. Finally, blaming social media is a cop out; ancient Greeks sharing papyri in the schools of the forum was comparable to our virtual communities.

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10 Aug 2022 18:06 #369816 by ZealotX
Well... it looks like I have to say it. I don't like having to say this. It doesn't bring me joy. It doesn't keep me warm at night. I don't like it. I don't like whataboutism. I fully want to embrace the subject matter for what is is. But since no one else has said it I need to say it in order to get it out of the way.

"What if they were black?"

Would we even be willing to have a serious discussion about the who, what, why of it all? Would we be talking about how society has failed them and how they're trying to survive without fathers and aggravated by bullying or emasculated? Would we be searching for the reasons behind the reasons for their actions? Would we be talking about helping them? Finding ways to better their lives?

I'm willing to have this conversation. I'm willing to see what, if anything, we can do to help. But what if part of the problem is that these kids are being indoctrinated to believe, like this radio host, that they are being defecated on by society? Who is out there saying "men are stupid"?

Some people, I think, are mistaking solutions for problems. There was an imbalance in our society where women, for example, were constantly belittled; told what they could and couldn't do. This belief was reinforced by, YES, the patriarchy which includes anyone advancing the same narrative. So when movies come out and the current zeitgeist is to repair these imbalances by showing that women can do anything that a man can do... that doesn't simultaneously say ANYTHING about men. It's almost like there are guys who have to be told they are superior and if that message is stopped then they suddenly feel inferior. It's like if everything isn't about them and for their benefit they don't know how to handle it.

I'm sorry, but it's very difficult, for me, to mentally get there... to understand how far these young white boys and men have suffered simply for not having society bend over backward to keep them elevated. Equality and diversity don't mean that white men are inferior. It means everyone is equal. The ONLY people out there saying anything otherwise seems to be bitter young white men who think society owes them power in the same way that incels believe women owe them sex. No, you earn it by being good at something!
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10 Aug 2022 18:13 #369817 by ZealotX
I mean, listening to this radio guy complain about "critical race theory" is ridiculous because the only people talking about CRT are scared white people and they don't really even know what it is or where it's being taught. They think it's being taught in schools because they are an echo chamber of their own fears. And in my opinion, these young white men are being driven by these fears by individuals, on their side, who are also young white men, who are also scared and want to hype each other up into taking action.

And so they are indoctrinated by this. They are losing their minds over the idea of not being in control but just because power is and will continue to be shared by more and more minorities, that doesn't mean MERIT has changed. It is becoming MORE of a meritocracy, not less. But They think it's less because they cannot BELIEVE that women are just as capable and that black people are just as capable. So they have to frame these incursions into their domain as "diversity hires". No, society has simply and finally figured out a way to penetrate the "boys club" that has been created out of racism, sexism, xenophobia, greed, etc. Sometimes people didn't get jobs because the hiring manager thought they were ugly or fat while some women only got the job because their bosses thought maybe they could seduce them. That kind of system has gone on for so long and it was only ever possible because those same young white men justified their power and told themselves it was okay to discriminate like that.

But now that they don't like it, how can we make these otherwise good ol boys *NOT* MURDER INNOCENT CHILDREN?!?! Because whenever "they" start throwing all those "theys" around and they're talking about who is a pedophile and they want to build a wall to stop the rapists with calf muscles like watermelons, MS13 PG13 District13 Fridaythe13 all the thirteens... we should treat them as the enemy if they don't fit the immigration profile enough (Russian immigrants perfectly ok) but when they are slaughtering younglings, over and over, we need to save the lives of potential mass murderers and understand them and empathize with them and work with them because their society is just too woke for them not to snap and go on killing sprees with all the precious guns they can get their hands on???

I guess my focus is just a little off.

I'm not completely unsympathetic. Like a lot of people, I got bullied in school too. But I don't recall ever wanting to blow up or shoot ANYONE, including the bullies I was afraid of. Bullies are normal. That reaction? Isn't. I'm sorry, but this is true. A lack of power or control, disenfranchisement, even oppression by society are things I can relate to but NOT reasons for killing ANYONE much less society, much less the innocent children of that society. Now if there's a way to help them NOT TO BECOME MONSTERS then I'm all for that. I'm all for stopping these kids before they can become indoctrinated into hate by their peers. But once they get indoctrinated and now they're terrorist cells waiting to strike against humanity, I just don't know if I have a set of kid gloves capable of handling that.

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10 Aug 2022 18:24 #369818 by Rex
You did resurrect a conversation from several months ago; so I'm not accusing you of getting joy from this, but you went out of your way to bring this back up.

I also think you ask a very relevant question about race and then dive right back into the gender dimension.

Looking at the data, I think the incel profile might be the most visible but doesn't represent the majority of perpetrators/cases. Additionally, I don't think anyone here is trying to make sense of the incel mindset, moreso defend it.

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10 Aug 2022 22:41 #369821 by Alethea Thompson
I often wonder if part of the problem is that they are told they have more power than they actually do too. Not by the people that are in their camp, but rather by the people fighting against them. Which...ironically, is a massive group of White People that believe they are playing the role of a strong Ally (not to be confused with my nickname XD).

I agree with you, the more we represent minorities in our society, the more our equality increases.

This is just one of the 1000 and 1 reasons I believe we need to have Psychological First Aide courses in Middle and High School. Teach everyone to get to know themselves for who they are, teach them coping mechanisms, and how to recognize when their friends are in need and how to just communicate with them. It would be such a comprehensive course, it wouldn't fit into 1 year, it would need to span the entirety of the 7-8 years they are in middle and high school. It doesn't need to be politically motivated, but rather oriented towards building individuals and their interpersonal relations with people around them.

Gather at the River,
Setanaoko Oceana
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11 Aug 2022 00:43 #369824 by Whyte Horse

Alethea Thompson wrote: Because ISIL, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, land several other male dominated terrorists organizations don’t exist and have women around to help them raise young boys to be murders.

Your statistics mean very little in the face of thousands of years of human history- or are we just going to ignore that humanity has this deeply ingrained need to fight for something even when in a time of peace?

Women aren’t necessarily innocent in these things either- there are women who use their political talents to win over young people to the cause of terrorism and perpetuate the cause. Not opressed women, these women -want- to be part of the cause. Case in point- www.cfr.org/report/women-and-terrorism

This is simply a human problem. When violence runs rampant around the world when “strong father figures” exist, then trying to pin the issue on males abandoning their children or women for not being enough for their children is nothing more than a way to cope with a problem you have no solutions for.

Btw, did you know there are gangs around the world which indoctrinate their children into the gang? Those families also tend to have both parents present too!

Violence isn’t a simple subject. Look around the world and you can see it’s not so simple as “fatherlessness”. America ain’t the only country with problems- it’s just the one that gets in the news the most.

Seriously, you think Hitler’s soldiers, or the soldiers currently committing war crimes in Ukraine or the men that were largely responsible for the the Rwandan genocide mostly came from Fatherless homes? Give me a break.


This is a false dichotomy. You can't compare the slums of Rwanda with the suburbs of America. The shooters in the US didn't grow up in the warzones of Ukraine, Nazi concentration camps, or Rwandan gangster villages.

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

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