Knightism vs the Force Discussion

Kira wrote: Also, I'm curious as to the rationale for this knights only section of the website.

Twas just before I joined back in 2011, here is when it was created, 06 Jun 2011, seemingly;

Jestor wrote: This is your Forum...

This is an area, where you can discuss things out of the general members area...

Masters, and Senior members are able to see posts in this area, so we will be monitoring this forum in the event you have questions, or problem, or are looking for advice, etc...

As always, if you need further assistance, or questions of a more personal nature, the in boxes of the senior members are always open....

May the Force be with You...

And from a quick perusal back then (Council Archives, Mar 2011) it appears that the reason was so there was somewhere that training instructions could be discussed and planned.... in a place out of the eyes of those who would be receiving the training - as obviously giving answers to questions defeats the point and perhaps also because some structure in training allows complex topics to be approached from simpler lessons. I'd imagine the hope was it might provide some espirit de corps as well, being some chatter even back then about how to retain Knights.

I think for a lot of people here there is something of a perceived correlation between rank and "worthiness to talk about philosophy / the force" and also "worthiness to duty and virtue" in itself since rank is used as an evident measure of study in the relevant topics. I obviously don't believe one has to become a knight here in order to study or express understanding of Jedi-relevant topics though. I think these are two very separate things.

Beyond just accessing some other parts of the forum, knighthood, I think was meant to be a rite of passage to serve the individual's ability to feel capable, ready and committed to reaching their full positive potential in whatever they do in life as a Jedi, whatever their "call" to adventure is (which reinforces their expected drive to study/act for whatever it is they do), but not necessarily a badge to say they are more qualified to talk about philosophy or the force. That is a very different process to me that is gradual and a great deal more psychological to grasp.

It seems important in my mind to understand where this distinction is particularly when deciding if one wants to be a Knight or not.

Kira - I don't have the numbers to hand, but the 'Knight's only' area is small - at a guess I would say it is less than 10% of the forum. It isn't very large and it certainly isn't very active! There are a few active degree journals, discussions on IP checking and organising apprenticeships, and most recently votes on Knighthood. I would say that the vast majority of new Knights are underwhelmed by the number and quality of those parts of the forum!! The council area might be different (I don't know) - but I suspect not! The rationale for having those as 'Knights only' is that, as with any organisation, there are always a few discussions that are better had in a private setting, before being made public.

Kyrin - there is nothing to stop you from getting involved. There are plenty of novices, initiates and apprentices who have roles and have made very significant contributions. They write sermons, they support novices, they welcome new members and have all sorts of of other meaningful responsibilities here at TOTJO, and on discord. The roles requiring the most dedication are typically held by Knights because they are (almost by definition) the ones who have demonstrated the commitment and reliability to hold those roles. A notable example is ren, himself, so even that isn't a hard rule. If you would like to contribute - PM me and we can discuss.

Ren - I agree with you: There is a scarcity of philosophical / theological discussion and what discussion / exploration there is, is limited. The way the forum is set-up is not conducive for this. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

I hear you Loudzoo

Loudzoo's Post:


So much of what happens here in the forums is hardly any discussion on the Force. Such threads usually die after... what, ten posts? Unless it goes massively off topic. Its the unfortunate nature of an open forum.

This is why this is simply a school/church. A place for like minded individuals to meet, learn, and take it into the real world. Its why most of the people I talk to here, and can actively learn from, I've added on my Facebook.

It used to be a church & school, now it's just feels like... what was the description another member gave? A concrete garage for everyone about absolutely nothing. It certainly doesn't feel like a church or a school anymore. I wonder if that's in any way responsible for all the people who have walked out. People who have contributed a vast amount of time and energy to the site over the years...

And you can thank a few key guests as to why we don't have more discussions on The Force, anything brought up gets picked at like a scab by people with nothing better to do, and we no longer believe in banning, so enjoy the circus?

Zenchi wrote:
And you can thank a few key guests as to why we don't have more discussions on The Force, anything brought up gets picked at like a scab by people with nothing better to do, and we no longer believe in banning, so enjoy the circus?

What is stopping the resumption of discussions about the Force? Start this discussion. Specifically set the theme for it. It will be interesting for experienced members of the Temple, and then novices will join.
There is only one way to stop the negative changes in the system: analyze the factors that will extend to these changes. And to develop a program in which it will be written how to stop these changes. And act in accordance with it.

Adder wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Do you think that has something do to with the restrictions put on non-knights and the freedoms that Knights enjoy?.

I don't, quite the contrary.... many Knights have disappeared because once reaching the rank of Knight they realized there were effectively no benefits to it!!! Which is not a real problem if one is not a badge hunting FOMO

If your not a knight you cant teach or develop any sort of curriculum. Even if you have the A-Div.

ren wrote: What I mean is people seem more concerned about appearing 'knightly' than engage in some serious force theory discussion, or ethics. They enforce rather than challenge.... Which in my view is the exact opposite of what philosophical enquiry should yield. Thought provocation is borderline frowned upon, and as kyrin pointed out, half the site is unavailable to non-knights, as a form of safety precaution (although I do not know what from).

I should point out Kyrin has a bit of a reputation. She's our lightweight abby/hannigan hybrid :laugh:

LOL I dont know who abby is but hannigan? come on really?? :silly:

Beyond that, If you see that missing why dont you start some discussions on force theory? If no one ever starts it, it will never get done. Fill that need of a leader you see here! I for one would jump at an opportunity to engage in some of that discussion with you. I find you highly intelligent and I would love to engage more with you in that regard. That is the issue with many around here. Neaj just the latest example. They sit back and complain that the temple is not this or its not that and then they leave but they never take the initiative to make it what it should be! They are expecting someone else to do it. But thats not the way it works, if you want something "YOU" (proverbial) are the only one to make it happen.

This temple teaches many things but it never teaches how to be a leader.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Do you think that has something do to with the restrictions put on non-knights and the freedoms that Knights enjoy?.

I don't, quite the contrary.... many Knights have disappeared because once reaching the rank of Knight they realized there were effectively no benefits to it!!! Which is not a real problem if one is not a badge hunting FOMO

If your not a knight you cant teach or develop any sort of curriculum. Even if you have the A-Div.

But, as you've found, making your own lil forum where you can teach whatever you want is super easy. Its not like you have to teach here.

Besides, many can argue teaching here is hardly a freedom, so as much as a responsibility.