Apprentice Arisaigs article on Grey Jedi

“We’ve all seen them about. They come in saying they’re unique because of their Path, and that they do not fear the dark like the Jedi but are more restrained than the Sith. I am talking, of course, of those that proclaim themselves to be Grey Jedi”

: Arisaig


Interesting article on the Grey Jedi by Arisaig

Thank you Marta, was about to post this myself. What do we think about this? I used to hold pretty closely to this belief myself, but age (or experience for a lack of a better term) has changed my view to a certain extant...

I agree with quite a bit of what has been written here by my young apprentice, but still, there are parts i can also see myself disagreeing with all the same. In this i am attempting to remain objective, but it does come off as, well, rather judgmental somewhat in his well written observation. And yet, in several instances, he has a valid point...

I could easily be called a "Grey Jedi, I am a student of the force, I try to be compassionate, i "try" to be non judgmental, ( i did say try, please dont pick the shit out of this or other posts please & thank you in advance) in short im a work in progress. I dont honestly subscribe to the Jedi code as something that needs to be followed or adhered to...

So, if i don't adhere to the Jedi Code, does that make me a Jedi, why then should i bother with the Jedi label at all?

I also could very well fall within the lines of Shadow, or even Sith. The problem here is labels. By attempting to define others (or ourselves) what is, or is not, instead of simply observing and acting in accordance with the force, or our will, we attempt to place ourselves (and each other) in a box. Life is not so simple, no mattter how much we may wish to be so. We get so attached to the masks we're wearing, we soon loose sight of why we picked them up to begin with, and forget it's a mask. Something something Watts, something something Shiva....

The focus should not be on whether someone else is "Jedi" or not, but on ourselves, and our own individual growth...

Who am i, that i can point to someone else and say there path, or how they choose to define themselves is not high enough to meet the supposed watermark? Again, in doing so, i have taken the focus off of myself, and placed it on others. And i get it, "think lightly of yourself" and all that. You can easily turn that around into any argument to serve whatever point you want...

Am i Jedi, am i Sith? Am i a Grey?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ3wWisRtTA

Am i Jedi, am i Sith? Am i a Grey?

Personally i dont believe in colour coding , as i see it these day we are all of that , i see Jedi in my self , i see Sith in myself and a shade of Doubt if you will and that i would call Grey , if Ari is making the point that the Grey path is the easy part then i must really point out that Doubt is a Path killer , and therefore the most difficult path , and one that you might regret , or will regret.

A lot of emphasis is pointed at "being oneself" and "being genuine" as for the relationship with the Path , i would say , the more we learn about ourself , the more questions we have. We should not be so afraid of being confused, after all with this new internet age we get to take in so much information. A lot of that is distracting us from taking a good look at ourselves and getting to know ourselves.

It really does not matter , Jedi , Sith , Grey , as long as you can stand up for what you believe in and are honestly trying to make the most of what you get in life. Excellence in all things goes for all 3 , even if it seems the Greys are taking an easy way out , i really dont believe they are ...

There is no doubt I am sith - as the saying goes with my hand over my mouth muffled “ I was born in the darkness” smileyface.
There can come a place where we realize what we are by definition. Our definition. Some one else’s definition. Every one else’s definition. That’s fine - call yourself what you like. You have that right. Act how you like. You have that right. Represent any label you choose and see fit ! You are human and have that right. If it helps this discussion any- who we are CAN change over time and for some of us it has and will. There is a very real quest for wisdom and knowledge here and as we receive it we can expect ourselfs to grow with the finding of these things. One of the hardest things I find in a Jedi path is the paradox of choice or the ability to be the individual. The human potential. The freedoms to choose what you wanna be. It’s the same in the human world ... you know - off the line - ( offline - that was a joke)
There can come a time when you choose to take all the labels you can identify with and set them all on your table . Example - I am sith light soldier dad father best friend chief hobbit lover reader hobbit Trekkie narnian nerd jock fighter brother knight Clergy time keeper mechanic witch fire fighter rescue swimmer medic runner -my personal list is extensive but you get the idea. All these things and I am them at ceartain times in my life. The balance so to speak. I call on ol sgt Martinez when I need him or even medic Martinez when my family has a need or even fire fighter when the wife catches the kitchen on fire trying to make Jell-O shots ... and at any time I only have to remind myself I am the forgiving father I never had.. life is full. To be you in its entirety - to constantly be adding new “yous” by learning and adding taking away subtracting this one and that one - can be a fun and cultivating thing that can benifit us all a bit more.
My encouragment - identify and step through it - add it to the rest of who you are. Really - no one person is just one person. That’s the joy of syncretism and Jedinism - the labels that removes labels I often say... or adds ... your choice. Come to grips with who you are- find out - identify - then - do somthimg with all that. Grow this one and that one. Apply them, you won’t regret it !
this is just encouragment and in no way telling any one what to do. Make desisions for yourself. Don’t. I hope this helps to see how others are doing things and maybe be some kind of help . May the Force you seek find you !’

I like a lot of what the article has to say, and while that statement implies that there are also aspects of it I like less, I do want to first stress why I enjoyed it. Personally, I think that people come to a path like Jediism (or whatever moniker you want to attach to it) because they are lost in some other aspect of their life. They've often come from powerful backgrounds like insular religions or military organizations, or they've experienced various levels of trauma -- sometimes all of these. Other times, Jedi arrive here because they've been searching for something that fills the longing for connection that, I think, all sane humans share; for whatever reasons, personal or social, the seeker isn't able to find that sense of connection in the outside world but when they arrive here things just... click. Loss, pain, confusion... these are the things that have led the bulk of the Jedi I've talked with to the TotJO (and other Jedi paths).

The point is: we're not plucked as toddlers and sequestered away for indoctrination into an order of monastic wizard-samurai. We're real people coming into contact with our own needs and emotions and, for whatever reason, finding something here that satiates at least a little of our longing. We arrive here with baggage, almost always. So that's one of the things I enjoyed most about this: the acceptance of baggage as part of what it means to be a Jedi. That the point isn't to pretend we have everything together or are in some way superior because we're here practicing what, to most of the world, is a joke philosophy/religion. But, being a Jedi means looking at your baggage and saying "that's not all I am. I get to choose how I view myself, and the code tells me that I should base my self-judgements off of my intentions and the results of my actions. This Path tells me that I can become better than the person I was without having to hate the person I was; I am a continual being and this Path is progress." Something like that, anyway.

And so I think people who proclaim their "non-Jedi-ness" are mostly missing the point. That to be a real Jedi isn't to hide from emotions and passions, or to suppress them, but to live with them in a manner harmonious enough to allow the individual to feel good about their life while at the same time serving the good in the world as best as they are able. Like this article says, that's a tall order; it's not meant to be easy. It means recognizing that the "individual" is just another sum of various interactions and that choosing to be a Jedi is simply the choice to take a more active role in self-exploration, by choosing to accept a specific set of codes and general beliefs that one tries to embody (yeah, there's that word again, I hear ya).

This is, likewise, why I've always felt that things like "Sith" are... silly. What I liked about this article on that front was that it pointed out a different aspect than what I'd been looking at before. People are trying to define themselves through identification with a term, perhaps one they feel encapsulates their concept of reality more clearly. That's where things begin to break down of course because... well, that's just what anyone is doing. For some reason, one just feels petulant while the other feels hopeful. Dunno, I'll let others philosophize in that area, it's really no different than a thousand other conversations of identity, group dynamics, and the power of belief, just the names of the beliefs have changed. The point is, as I see it, being a Jedi means saying "for at least a while, I am going to relinquish some of my autonomy in order to see if this practice and experience makes me a happier person." We give up our autonomy a million times every day, this isn't any different. People who claim the title gray are, 7 out of 10, fighting that reality; they want their cake while they eat it. Nothing really wrong with that, it's a very human desire, but it also doesn't make one worthy of calling themself "Jedi."

Now, one point in the article that did bother me a little is exemplified by this: " If we fail, we have only ourselves to blame." I was reading the article and feeling a sense of... paternalism? Perhaps? In the Catholic sense, i.e. "we're all flawed and sinful creatures who must eternally strive to be better than we were," and I don't know if I agree with that. At the same time that I believe it can be a positive thing to look at yourself and try to walk the path of betterment, I also believe that doing so merely because you want to escape those "bad" things about yourself isn't what being a Jedi is about. Betterment? Yes. But guilt-free betterment, not the sort of betterment that comes from negative reinforcement or negative thoughts about oneself. Maybe this is just me quibbling about things...

So that's one of the things I enjoyed most about this: the acceptance of baggage as part of what it means to be a Jedi.



Good stuff - I may use that ! With your consent !

I liked it a lot. I agree with the two thesis's that Jedi represent an ideal which we can never fully achieve, but that we are enriched (and enrich some part of the world) by pursuing, and that there is a huge tendency among people to adopt the philosophy that fits to who they already are, so that they can special or wise or enlightened or whatever it is theyd like to think they are, without having to change or work hard or risk failure or face their own shortcomings. To my way of thinking, these are obviously true.

I had my own version of one of the reactions that Lockey referenced: If we are flawed, how so, exactly? Who is to say we are flawed? What is the standard in comparison to which we are flawed, where does that standard come from, and why should it be the standard that we measure ourselves by?

Im not disagreeing with the premise that we are flawed (i agree with the premise) im asking if the author can back it up. Support it with a rational explanation. Or if nothing else, suggesting that he begin looking into one.

OB1Shinobi wrote: If we are flawed, how so, exactly? Who is to say we are flawed? What is the standard in comparison to which we are flawed, where does that standard come from, and why should it be the standard that we measure ourselves by?

We are flawed in the way we see. We are the ones that say we are flawed, subconsciously. I know I am flawed, and I hold myself accountable to those flaws. I recognise them and learn to grow from them. I know I slip up, but I don't let a mistake define me. I blame myself once, and then move on, being better than my previous self a minute ago, and hour ago, a day ago.

I'm not saying to live up to another person's expectations, or even a group's expectations of what you should be. But we all know our flaws. We know our character flaws, our ticks, our triggers that make us stumble. We also know what we want to become. It is in recognising that we are not yet what we wish to be, and holding oneself towards the pursuit of what we want to be, even if unreachable, that makes us better people for the struggle.

To be flawed Or to not to be flawed hu ... that’s the question. Lol
As a “ seasoned” or even as an “old “ Jedi myself, I can say I wrestled with this very thing. What do I call it ? The “ it “I am referring to is my actions. Some of us - not all of us - want to use some label to better understand things more and that’s not a bad thing at all. I myself have come to the point in my own walk and practice that I no longer label things or at least try to label it as “simple” as possible for me. Example - blind hate - if you add hate for no real reason but simply to hate - you don’t even know the other persons name yet - there it is ... blind hate. Not at all saying that for blame or anything to any one here - just using it as an example of how “simplifying“ things can look for me in my practice. Religion race color sex creed faith - all these can include blind hate.

Now... I came to grips with my own flawed or not flawed - sin or not sin - right or wrong - good bad - light dark - grey —- so on and so forth. Every person will make their own choices and I definitely encourage every one to do that for themselves. The sooner the better . Know your self and define yourself . Do it - label
Your self - color your self - make a choice...
Then - live it - try it- you never know till you give it a go. Find it - test it -
I tell you what I found out for myself. Your results will vary - they have to.
All the things I used to label - got me here - filled my heart with what’s in it now - my learn was made by my path - who I am right now is a direct result of all that. No blame - just pure acceptance . As a human being, the hardest thing I found is acceptance of my entire being - so I said - I am... I am alll the things I am. One of our teachings #4 is Jedi are wary of attachments, both material and personal. One of the most freeing attachment for me was blame. It helped me Sooo much . Identify and don’t blame. Blaming kept me from moving forward. For some reason, when I identified, I wanted to blame. Automatically. That added insult to old injuries within myself. So I no longer use the word “flaw”, am I flawed or am I not flawed. The more simple question to myself no long includes that blaming word, it is simply “Am I?” “Am I Not?”.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see things this way, I see things that...and I am grateful that I can see. I am grateful I can make my own choices. I am grateful that I don’t have to judge myself for liking ice cream, or only liking the Proverbs, or only parts of Torah, or bits and pieces of this or that.
I’m a Jedi, I’m allowed. And so are you. Judgement comes from others, seeing our path like that, seeing our faith like that, like the Syncretic Symphony each of us is; can greatly change your heart and your mind.
So like Proteus was nudging, what is “flawed”?
Who really has the right to call an individual, “flawed”? Not me.

I hope this helps, really I do.
And thank you for this post.
Thank you for the wonderful ness that is you, every one of you.
Without you, there would be no “Us”.

I find the whole thing a bit… condescending. But really, that seems the attitude of the whole community towards anyone who utters the word "grey". The facebook group, here, I'm sure other sites if I decided to go through each one. There just seems to be a lot of animosity towards anyone who identifies with that Jedi subset. Weirdly, moreso than those who identify with the Sith subset.

The article tosses around the ideas that "Grey want to stand out but end up blending in", failure, lazy, "they can say they achieved what others spend a lifetime working towards", "Grey path is a lie they tell themselves", "losing their way", "making excuses", "alternate path that allows for shortcomings", etc.

Overall, it carries a pretty negative connotation that smells strongly of the superiority complex involved with the "Us vs Them" mentality.

I wonder about the ability of a person who hasn't traveled a certain path to be capable of judging it. I mean, judgement can certainly be leveled from an outside perspective, but is that ever actually accurate? Someone who has never been a police officer can never judge, with the weight of experience(which is the foundation of true knowledge, IMO), behind their judgement. Likewise for any football fans judging the players and saying "well they should…"
And likewise for a Jedi who hasn't traveled the Grey Jedi path judging that path. Or a Grey who hasn't traveled the Jedi path judging that path. Without the experience, the knowledge and thus the judgements are hollow. Penguins may as well hypothesize nuclear physics.

I also find a particular irony in closing out that flavor of article with a "This is not an attack, but a wakeup call". Interestingly, It feels like something a missionary would say to a nonbeliever. "We are right and you are wrong. We just want to save you. Wake up and accept *our* truth." Not approving of a path… Not agreeing with a path… Does not mean the path is wrong or wrong for those on it. And as much as I enjoy(#sarcasm) the Jehovah witnesses coming by, or the Christians constantly trying to save my soul that they're certain is lost, I'm sure those who follow the Grey enjoy these types of articles, with their negativity, judging, and attempts to wake them, even less.

---

I'm not saying to live up to another person's expectations, or even a group's expectations of what you should be.But we all know our flaws. We know our character flaws, our ticks, our triggers that make us stumble. We also know what we want to become. It is in recognising that we are not yet what we wish to be, and holding oneself towards the pursuit of what we want to be, even if unreachable, that makes us better people for the struggle.

I'm not sure if you can see it, but you are. You are taking your experience of the Jedi path and with the aid of quite a few metaphors telling others on their own path that they need to follow your expectations.
Having read through the Grey Code(admittedly, that is *all* I have done- a quick read through) I see nothing about not recognizing or improving on flaws. I'm curious on why that seems to be your defining point of the difference between the two subsets?